Blown head gaskets with ARP's

[Dirty_Stroke]

Hey guys I have a blown or severely leaking head gasket in my 05. The truck has been studded for about 3 years maybe a little longer. I used ARP 425's with OEM gaskets and had the heads machined perfectly flat. I'm only running 155's and a 64.7mm VGT. I'm stuck in the boat of fix it again and hope it holds or trade it off for a newer truck. The end goal with this truck was 190's or 205's with a matching charger. What does it take to make this motor hold that kind of power? I'm not easy on it by any stretch of the imagination. I've been told ARP 625's with OEM gaskets would hold. I've also checked into O-ringed heads. I need opinions from people that have 650+ Hp 6.0's. How long they've held up and what's the setup?

 

[bigrpowr]

studs prolly got tired, and the back pressure from VGT and added fuel prolly did the gaskets in. try a stud with better material makeup.

 

[swinky]

Blew gaskets here with stock turbo and injectors. The flood gates opened with a 366 and 190s.

Fwiw I'm doing extreme studs and oem gaskets. I'd say do a cam and lifters if you plan on driving the truck to 200k miles or more.

I don't have a 650hp truck but Elmo, Jesse warren, stonepusher and Matt at cutting edge have 650+ hp trucks and have all blown gaskets with standard arps.

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[Dirty_Stroke]

Blew gaskets here with stock turbo and injectors. The flood gates opened with a 366 and 190s.

Fwiw I'm doing extreme studs and oem gaskets. I'd say do a cam and lifters if you plan on driving the truck to 200k miles or more.

I don't have a 650hp truck but Elmo, Jesse warren, stonepusher and Matt at cutting edge have 650+ hp trucks and have all blown gaskets with standard arps.

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So what are they doing about it? Installing 625's? Would it need O-rings AND 625's or just stepping up to the better stud be enough to hold? If I fix it this time I damn sure don't want to fix it a third time.

 

[swinky]

They're not doing anything. I'm getting somebody else to do it. Matt at cutting edge is running 625s with victor reinz gaskets without o-ring heads. I don't think o-ring is needed with the stronger studs.

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[Josh@DirtyDiesels]

Try the extreme studs when you do the gaskets this time. FWIW I run ARP's torqued to 225ft/lbs that have been used at least 3 times with O ringed heads and stock gaskets. Heads haven't been off for over a year and truck has been between 600-700hp since the last time the heads were off. I can tell you for sure that next time I need to do head gaskets I will be staying with O ringed heads and I will use the extreme studs. They are a better material so wouldn't hurt to use them.

 

[MrOneEyedBoh]

I talked to that guy Jeff that owns Extreme studs and on thing has me worried... I read a few times online about guys ( I think it was few cummins guys )finding rust on their Extreme studs... So I read about it more and as we know, you cant coat tool steel reliably with a coating. It just wont take to the surface. ARP combated this by coming out with their own proprietary coating that is corrosion resistant.

So you say well Extreme studs has their studs coated in Black Oxide? True, but people are still saying they are finding rust sooner or later. Rust equals corrosion which equals weakened studs and then leads to failed studs.

I emailed Jeff and he did confirm that rust will happen in a corrosion environment. Im guessing under a truck hood is considered corrosive... Just a thought, and Im still on the fence about which stud to go with. Any thought?

 

[swinky]

I'm wondering how an extreme stud has enough clamping force at 180 while the 625s take 265 even though tensile strength is higher.

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[sootie]

I talked to that guy Jeff that owns Extreme studs and on thing has me worried... I read a few times online about guys ( I think it was few cummins guys )finding rust on their Extreme studs... So I read about it more and as we know, you cant coat tool steel reliably with a coating. It just wont take to the surface. ARP combated this by coming out with their own proprietary coating that is corrosion resistant.

So you say well Extreme studs has their studs coated in Black Oxide? True, but people are still saying they are finding rust sooner or later. Rust equals corrosion which equals weakened studs and then leads to failed studs.

I emailed Jeff and he did confirm that rust will happen in a corrosion environment. Im guessing under a truck hood is considered corrosive... Just a thought, and Im still on the fence about which stud to go with. Any thought?

we arent talking body panels here. in order for rust to have a negative impact on those studs, likely the truck will have lived two lives by then.

I'm wondering how an extreme stud has enough clamping force at 180 while the 625s take 265 even though tensile strength is higher.

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you answered your own question...

 

[MrOneEyedBoh]

we arent talking body panels here. in order for rust to have a negative impact on those studs, likely the truck will have lived two lives by then.

Not true, once rust starts on the surface its already at a molecular level. ARP has a whole thing on it in their catalog... Possibly online. Rust will cause issues within the steels structure. Plus with the stress these already get, it just has me wondering... Maybe Im looking into it too much??

 

[HOOV3R]

Not true, once rust starts on the surface its already at a molecular level. ARP has a whole thing on it in their catalog... Possibly online. Rust will cause issues within the steels structure. Plus with the stress these already get, it just has me wondering... Maybe Im looking into it too much??

Coat studs in moly, problem solved.

 

[MrOneEyedBoh]

Im going to play Devil's advocate here... If I coat the stud in a Moly coating, and I go over the threads ( where the rust would take part, the head of the stud/nut area ) then the torque values change.

If I only coat the shoulder of the stud, then the threads/nut are still exposed.

 

[Twan]

I will be going with the ARP 620's when I do mine over again next year.
My normal ARP's only lasted for a few trailer pulls, hard miles but they didn't hold.
I'm sure it's my studs because I had them put to 250 ft lbs to make it throw summer and they are holding again.

I'm waiting to hear how the ARPs do on Matts ranger before I decide on o rings personal.

 

[MrOneEyedBoh]

MDP supposedly has had zero failures with their O-ringed heads. Maybe Greg will pop in here. I talked to them last week, since my truck will be getting studs there.

 

[mcdaniel1991]

Im going to play Devil's advocate here... If I coat the stud in a Moly coating, and I go over the threads ( where the rust would take part, the head of the stud/nut area ) then the torque values change.

If I only coat the shoulder of the stud, then the threads/nut are still exposed.

Correct me if I'm wrong but, extreme studs say to coat the threads in moly? I coated mine and torqued to 180ft/lb.

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[HOOV3R]

Correct me if I'm word wrong but, extreme studs say to coat the threads in moly?

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Correct

 

[Twan]

MDP supposedly has had zero failures with their O-ringed heads. Maybe Greg will pop in here. I talked to them last week, since my truck will be getting studs there.

Wish all this was on the forms last April when I had my truck studed. Lol.
Are you going to O-ring your heads, and what studs are you going with?

 

[mcdaniel1991]

I will be going with the ARP 620's when I do mine over again next year.
My normal ARP's only lasted for a few trailer pulls, hard miles but they didn't hold.
I'm sure it's my studs because I had them put to 250 ft lbs to make it throw summer and they are holding again.

I'm waiting to hear how the ARPs do on Matts ranger before I decide on o rings personal.

Only thing that steered me away from 620's aside from the price is the high torqe value and cylinder distortion.

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[MrOneEyedBoh]

Correct

Thats a moly grease, I thought you were talking about Moly coatings. My apologies Grease wont stay there forever, but as someone said by the time it leaves it may be two lifetimes.

 

[HOOV3R]

Thats a moly grease, I thought you were talking about Moly coatings. My apologies Grease wont stay there forever, but as someone said by the time it leaves it may be two lifetimes.

I think you are really over thinking this. They'll be fine.