Dads 03, again.

6speedsd · Mar 21, 2013

Ok, another update.

This morning, truck plugged in, 30 degrees out, turned it over and it fired again after a couple seconds. Ran for just a second and went dead. Turned it over again, fired, sputtered an went dead. 3rd time it fired, sputtered for a few seconds then cleared up and idled perfect. Almost acts like its not getting fuel at first. But as I said, KOEO builds to 50psi immediately. Didn't see any smoke while cranking or when it was sputtering.

Mdub707 · Mar 21, 2013

Man you really need AE to monitor some things. I'd be interested to see what ICP is. Have you tried unplugging the ICP sensor and starting it on a cold morning like that?

Lassie · Mar 21, 2013

Does that truck have the inductive heat FICM flash? I've done way too much research on stiction recently, and this is the first route I'm going to take on a truck with severe stiction. I think some people,(me), were confusing "stiction" with sticking from varnish or buildup.

From Ford Engineers: Stiction is an abbreviation for Static Friction. When injectors age and break in, oil is allowed to completely surround the spool valve. When the engine is cold, this oil impedes movement of the spool valve, similar to a suction effect. Oil will also builup and not drain from the ends of the spool and latch on to the spool when cold. The spool will not respond with the correct timing due to this stiction, causing a miss, until the oil is warm enough to easily drain from the injector.

Ford's first attempt was the "Buzz Flash" that would cycle the injector coils for 30 seconds after shutdown in an attempt to purge oil from the spool area. This was a failure because oil would still leak into the spool area after the buzzing stopped. The next attempt was the "inductive heating" flash which leaves the close coil of the injector energized at any time the open coil is not being fired, which heats the injector body up quickly, allowing the oil to drain freely. The inductive heating only occurs when engine temp is below a threshhold. Part of TSB - 9-22-16.

After understanding the physics behind stiction, I'm not going to attempt the injector spool cleaning yet. I can see where gunk in the area would help oil resist draining out of the injector, but I want to see the result of the flash first.

Mdub707 · Mar 21, 2013

Yeah most FICM's have the newer inductive heating. Some have said it kills FICM's too. Pick your poison.

In all the FICM's I've tested and repaired, I haven't seen a single one come in that had the old style where it buzzed after shut down.

6speedsd · Mar 21, 2013

I have AE. Everything reads normal during cranking. ICP about 600psi. Truck hasn't been back in a shop since around 2005, so whatever the latest reflash was then is what it has now.

Lassie · Mar 21, 2013

I agree that it's got to be harder on the FICM. It's pretty much constantly flowing current to every injector for five or ten minutes until warmup. Ford says there's no data to support that claim though!

I hate to keep derailing this thread, but the truck I'm fighting right now was taken to Ford for its cold rough running problems. They told him he needed 4 new injectors and would rebuild his FP regulator. The truck runs like a dream when warm and no test shows any standout injector problems. He asked them if it had the ind heat strategy, and they didnt even know what that was. So, I got it.

I've had the ind heat for three years in an older truck than his and it doesn't struggle nearly as bad with cold running. Mdub, do you not run that strategy in yours? Arent you experiencing stiction too?

Mdub707 · Mar 21, 2013

When you start the truck, do you usually just turn the key and wait for the "WTS" light to go out and then crank?

For cold starts, my method is as follows. I turn the key, and ignore the WTS light. The light is completely independent of glow plug on time anyways. I listen for the injectors buzzing. I listen and wait for them to run their completely buzz cycle. Then I cycle the key again, and do the same, listen for injectors to run a second complete cycle. You should be able to audibly hear them getting quicker as they "warm up" a little bit. After two complete buzz cylces, I start the truck. Usually fires up really smooth and idles nice, compared to just waiting once for the WTS light to go out.

6speedsd · Mar 21, 2013

No problem in the derail. Doesn't bother me. I like hearing others way of thinking.

We wait for injectors to run their cycle. I can't tell you the last time I looked at my wts light. We used to do 2-3 cycles like that before starting, and Didnt make a difference.

6speedsd · Mar 21, 2013

Speaking of inductive heat, I had my 04 in the service a couple years ago. Having the same cold starts. Wanted them to flash with inductive heat, but just like your case, they had no idea what I was talking about.

Mdub707 · Mar 21, 2013

I definitely have stiction something fierce right now. It's possible this FICM I'm running currently doesn't have the latest flash, it's an older 7 pin unit. I know if I throw a newer 4 pin on, my stiction almost goes away completely, but it's still there somewhat. Maybe that's it in my case. I just got the truck back from ARP's gaskets etc and I literally have only driven it twice now in the last 7 or 8 weeks, and before that I was swapping FICM's around all the time, I honestly can't even remember what I was doing at that point. Really need to get under the hood and remember what the heck I've got going on LOL

Lassie · Mar 21, 2013

6speedsd said:
Speaking of inductive heat, I had my 04 in the service a couple years ago. Having the same cold starts. Wanted them to flash with inductive heat, but just like your case, they had no idea what I was talking about.

Give them that TSB number. That will direct them to a procedure for it. I think that TSB has you check FICM voltages and other stuff, but you just tell them you want the flash part.

The truck I'm talking about is getting flashed today. I should know what kind of difference it made in the morning.

6speedsd · Mar 21, 2013

Which trucks had the old 7 pin? His was replaced with a 4 pin.

Lassie · Mar 21, 2013

It seems like if it has the old HP oil rail (03-early 04) it will have 7 pin. Somewhere around that change.

Mdub707 · Mar 21, 2013

Lassie said:
Give them that TSB number. That will direct them to a procedure for it. I think that TSB has you check FICM voltages and other stuff, but you just tell them you want the flash part.

The truck I'm talking about is getting flashed today. I should know what kind of difference it made in the morning.

Great, let us know how he makes out. If not, don't forget Power Hungry Performance can do FICM rollbacks too, to get a certain FICM strategy. They include good parts from some strategies and combine them with their own stuff. I believe Innovative does the same thing with the inductive heat and adds it to some of their FICM tunes.

6speedsd said:
Which trucks had the old 7 pin? His was replaced with a 4 pin.

I'm not entirely sure when they actually made the switch, most 03 and early 04's I've seen had the 7 pins, anything newer had the 4 pins and any replacement stuff went to 4 pin. 4 pin is the newer design, but I find myself using more 7 pins because I like the FICM tuning better back then. They run so much smoother and quieter. I had one kid text me back after I shipped him his repaired FICM complaining that he thought something was wrong with his truck, because it was idling so quiet. I couldn't stop laughing and told him I would gladly trade him the FICM off of my truck for it.

6speedsd · Mar 21, 2013

I'll get him to try cycling the key a few times in the morning before cranking. See if it helps.

I know having it plugged in has all but gotten rid of that miss, so maybe some Revex/Archoil will help.

Mdub707 · Mar 21, 2013

I would bet that it would get rid of most of the issues with that truck. As of right now it sounds like stiction is the biggest enemy here.

6speedsd · Mar 21, 2013

You know of any sponsors here that sell the Archoil? Haven't really searched for it much.

6speedsd · Mar 21, 2013

Ok, this is off topic somewhat, but school me on IPR. Not necessarily what it is or does, but when I'm reading it with AE. What percentages should I be seeing and what do they tell me? And I've noticed I can set duty cycle to a certain percentage. What is the point of that? What will changing it tell me or reveal?

Sorry for the rookie questions. This is probably all obvious to most people. I've just started using AE so some of these things are new to me.

Lassie · Mar 22, 2013

IPR at 15% is fully open, meaning its dumping all the fluid it can from the HPO system. 85% is fully shut, meaning keeping all the HPO in the system, because it needs it to maintain ICP.

When cranking, a healthy truck will start anywhere between 35 to 65% Max IPR on your graph. If IPR% goes to 85%, its having to use all the HPO the pump can produce. Make sense? Some HPO leaks will start at the 60-80% range, but won't restart hot.

At idle, the truck should not require more than 580 to 1000 psi ICP, depending on temp, so IPR should be low....like less than 35%. (The lower, the healthier)

Lassie · Mar 22, 2013

And to follow up on the truck I'm working on, the flash didn't improve this truck's cold running at all. He's opting for 8 new inj's.

He also informed me today that this truck had been run completely out of fuel twice....though I didn't think that would cause an injector to act like these. Seems that would cause problems regardless of temp. Either way, injectors it is!