Garret vs. Borg Warner

[Big Bore]

I've had several people I've talked to about compounds suggest a S series for the atmo. I see several others using Garrett turbo's exclusively like Lott and Charles.

What are the advantages of one or the other as far as durability and rebuilding?

Since my 38r is not rebuild-able I have pretty much decided if it goes I'm replacing it with Jakes kit and an S series, I may even replace it anyway just to mitigate that problem.

Thoughts, experiences?

 

[MadDiesel73]

The larger s series turbos are made by bullseyepower. The biggest s400 Borg actually makes is the s480 pretty much a gt45-small gt47

 

[Chvyrkr]

Stock to stock I think the Garretts flow more.

You can make an S400 flow just as much, so it probably comes down to price and space.

GT55 compact, for instance.

 

[dmd]

That 38r will probably disappoint you by lasting a very long time, they usually do.

 

[Ron's Power Stroke]

i was told the 467 flowed something like 2 lb per minute more on the top end then the 42R but the BB spooled a little faster on the botttom end..any truth to this?

 

[Worstenemy453]

I sell bullseye mostly but no issue with garrett. I dont think you can really go wrong either way.

 

[2000wa250]

i was told the 467 flowed something like 2 lb per minute more on the top end then the 42R but the BB spooled a little faster on the botttom end..any truth to this?

Havent run the 42R, but as far as the 467 with the EFR wheel, the spool up is good. Even without correct fuel and without oil.

 

[mike@haller's]

Most people run borgwarner because theyre cheaper. I personally like the garrett stuff. Mainly because you have so many options for housings and getting stuff sized right. They also release really good maps and info on all of there stuff.
I wouldn't get to caught up on the ball bearing stuff not being rebuildable either. You can always buy a chra which is a center housing rotating assembly. Which is new wheels and center section with bearings. Then you reuse your housings. Basicly same as a rebuild, with the price being fairly reasonsable. You can also upgrade a journal bearing chra to a ball bearing chra at any time.

 

[Big Bore]

I don't think spool up is really an issue in a compound setup using one as an atmo. As far as CHRA's I don't recall those being very cheap, basically the CHRA for a 38r is not much cheaper than a complete S series of the same size, maybe I've got that wrong.

 

[Cat_rebel]

Garrett distributors offer a CHRA exchange program, send in your blown core & get like 40-50% off a new one. Most people don't know about the program though.

 

[jkidd_39]

I was wondering the same thing a few months back while sizing my compounds for my cummins build.

What I really found out was a similarly sized Garrett charger is gonna net you about 30-40hp and about 300 rpm faster spool and cost $750-1000 more than a bw charger.

I think the Garrett chargers off the shelf seem to last longer. But if your going thru a turbo shop like HTT, ED, Force inductions they inspect all there chargers before shipment. And usually build there own custom stuff so they usually take the charger apart anyways and measure everything, ect.

I think finding a good shop you like to deal with and discuss your goals is much more important than brands.

I will prob use bw chargers for my compounds but if I ever do decide to go crazy and gut my AC I will be seriously considering garretts big thumper. Mmmm 106mm.

 

[mike@haller's]

I think finding a good shop you like to deal with and discuss your goals is much more important than brands.

Probably the best piece of advice in here.

 

[Hotrodtractor]

I love the S400 series of turbos - tons of parts/options/flexability all in a common platform and a good price range even for the high end billet wheels and custom covers. I also really like a lot of the offerings from the Garrett camp as well. the GTX series of chargers are some great high end off the shelf units with a fantastic and efficient compressor design - the GT55 has arguably one of the best turbine wheels out there in that frame of a charger - lots of good stuff all around - its a matter of figuring out your goals and what you want to accomplish with it - some chargers might be better for certain apps than other chargers - the need might even arise for building a set of compounds with a mixture of chargers....

 

[Big Bore]

Right now just sizing an atmo for high altitude (9000ft and up) for heavy tow/DD/performance. I had pretty much settled on a JB 4202 with a 1.44 exh. housing after looking at the Garrett maps and my needs. Being able to tow heavy at 11,000ft without the heat penalties is the primary goal. The Garrett BB's are nice but very pricey. If there is a S series comparable to that 4202 with a large ex housing that is reliable and less expensive I would be very interested.

Did I read correctly that the S series are significantly larger than a comparable size Garrett?

If you have never towed up to 15K at over 8000ft, please try to refrain from making commentary about what you think will work and how my choice in atmo is too small, I've heard it several times already, because you simply just don't understand the atmospheric conditions at these altitudes. Charles and HRT are exempted from that request. LOL

 

[Marty]

Most people run borgwarner because theyre cheaper. I personally like the garrett stuff. Mainly because you have so many options for housings and getting stuff sized right. They also release really good maps and info on all of there stuff.
I wouldn't get to caught up on the ball bearing stuff not being rebuildable either. You can always buy a chra which is a center housing rotating assembly. Which is new wheels and center section with bearings. Then you reuse your housings. Basicly same as a rebuild, with the price being fairly reasonsable. You can also upgrade a journal bearing chra to a ball bearing chra at any time.

In my experience the S4's have a lot better exhaust wheel options and more housings offered.

S465's cost ~ 900-1000
S475's Cost ~ 1500-2000

.9, 1.0, 1.10, 1.15 and even one or two larger housings are available.

I don't think spool up is really an issue in a compound setup using one as an atmo. As far as CHRA's I don't recall those being very cheap, basically the CHRA for a 38r is not much cheaper than a complete S series of the same size, maybe I've got that wrong.

Garrett distributors offer a CHRA exchange program, send in your blown core & get like 40-50% off a new one. Most people don't know about the program though.

I've tried that, didn't have much luck on one that I tried.

Right now just sizing an atmo for high altitude (9000ft and up) for heavy tow/DD/performance. I had pretty much settled on a JB 4202 with a 1.44 exh. housing after looking at the Garrett maps and my needs. Being able to tow heavy at 11,000ft without the heat penalties is the primary goal. The Garrett BB's are nice but very pricey. If there is a S series comparable to that 4202 with a large ex housing that is reliable and less expensive I would be very interested.

Did I read correctly that the S series are significantly larger than a comparable size Garrett?

If you have never towed up to 15K at over 8000ft, please try to refrain from making commentary about what you think will work and how my choice in atmo is too small, I've heard it several times already, because you simply just don't understand the atmospheric conditions at these altitudes. Charles and HRT are exempted from that request. LOL

4202 = 75/83 S400 which is what I'm running currently as a single 1.0 housing.

 

[Big Bore]

4202 = 75/83 S400 which is what I'm running currently as a single 1.0 housing.

Yea I know a lot of you higher HP guys are running those down at the low altitudes. My plan is to be able to run that size charger up here for the top end using the 38r to spool it then gate past the 38r. With the looser housing on the 4202 I figured it shouldn't have a lot of BP/heat issues. If I can find something in a S series comparable or better I'd be interested. What I've been able to find out is the 4202 with the 1.44 is used on larger equipment.

 

[Marty]

What I'm saying is the S475/83 1.0 is pretty close in size to a 4202. You also have turbine housings options from .9 to 1.32?

I'd run a gate instead of a 1.44 housing.

Just remember your first stage is going to slow down your second stage's ability to spool since you're adding a restriction. It is going to be like you're driving around with a larger then a 38R turbo as a single. IE: if you were happy with the 38R as a single for towing at altitude then expect it to be less responsive when it has another turbine wheel to push.

 

[Matt]

You can get an s475/96/1.32 or an s475/83/1.10 for $650.

 

[Cat_rebel]

You can get an s475/96/1.32 or an s475/83/1.10 for $650.

Is that T4 or T6 though?

 

[Matt]

T6. The T4 adds like 199.