NotStock
New member
Yes thats our new single bar block setup. That one is a 6" block.
New traction bars we will be offering!
- Thread starter NotStock
- Start date
Yes thats our new single bar block setup. That one is a 6" block.
I*C*B*M
New member
Wow. That's stout!
Homesteader
Member
- Joined
- May 26, 2011
- Messages
- 610
- Reaction score
- 0
Id say you got the most HD block setup.
Any pics of the tube end? Any gussets welded to the tube?
BTW a pm sent.
NotStock
New member
For now, it will be a standard tube. We may come up with a gusseted version at some point.
NotStock
New member
Awesome, glad you like them!
This single connection points on both ends will allow for much better articulation that the triangles versions of the old system. Why they will both allow full travel is the fixed path with both sides moving together but only the single bar will allow for articulation at extreme travel without binding. Making this a bolt on also makes this a huge improvement for those that may see more rough terrain and off roading. It will still give all the benefits of eliminated wrap and minimizing wheel hop.
Looks like a very good design. I still need to purchase a few more things from you Trevor. I have to say the hanger shackle kit I have from you has to be the the most well built HD version of this I have seen. I'm going to twist the frame end into a cork screw before those hangers give out. LOL
Trevor,
Question for ya. Have you actually tested this exact traction bar setup on a truck yet and testing it at full travel with a longer travel spring than stock?
Edited: to leave off the extra stuff as its common knowledge.
Looks like a very good design. I still need to purchase a few more things from you Trevor. I have to say the hanger shackle kit I have from you has to be the the most well built HD version of this I have seen. I'm going to twist the frame end into a cork screw before those hangers give out. LOL
Trevor,
Question for ya. Have you actually tested this exact traction bar setup on a truck yet and testing it at full travel with a longer travel spring than stock?
Edited: to leave off the extra stuff as its common knowledge.
Last edited:
NotStock
New member
Thanks man, glad you liked our hangers. Really the purpose of this additional version of bars was SUPPOSED to be a simple cost effective kit to offer customers that were just looking for simple single bar traction bars. Then I had a couple people want a block version and I got a little carried away with the design. There will be lots of testing to come with this design.
Homesteader
Member
- Joined
- May 26, 2011
- Messages
- 610
- Reaction score
- 0
Trevor is any of these Traction/block kit out there mounted on trucks yet?
I was looking at your block design and at first I did not like the bolt setup but that was just at a very quick glance. When I took a bit to actually see how you have setup on the inside I liked it a lot more. You have the steel sides of the two parts actually taking most all the twisting force along with the friction and lock in to the leaf springs with the captured Ubolts. There is little shearing force on the bolts at all from what I can see. Much like you did with your 08 leaf hangers the bolts are there to hold it together only not take load or force.
*** On the top plate design for the traction block:
Not any clear pics but if you could have the design so that the top plate can also be used as the bottom plate mount for any air bag would be fantastic. Make it flat and smooth to provide a good air bag seat. Would allow for stock height air bags to be used. Of course also the same multi-postion holes to allow for centering of the axle in the wheel well.
Yes as you got your mind going into the design phase with that traction block it went from budget to actually costly more than the old setup. When you start adding up those itemized options it adds up quick LOL Of course I am not sayings its not worth it just how things change when you start trying to improve on it and make it have more uses.
** Did you ever have any issues in HP setups or larger tires with the old traction block bending or cracking at the lower traction bar ,mounting point?
My idea is that while the two piece design of this new block is stronger I am not sure its really needed unless you have a reason to think the old design was an issue. With the way your blocks capture the ubolts there is no way they are going to spin unless the entire axle tube spins. SO unless the bar lower mount on the block itself was failing it may be a lot of extra steel and welding that is not needed and would also lower the cost as you already have it all done is the old design. Simply delete the top bar mount for this system or leave it so people could choose between the two different bar designs.
07_powerstroke
New member
I would like to have a single pole over the old setup but for me it would just be for looks.
NotStock
New member
No, never had a single failure on our floating traction bar kit. It is still a line we will continue to offer and I think it has great advantages over a single bar kit depending on the uses of the truck. For some, a single bar kit may perform better and of course there are always people that have it set in their mind that one is better than the other. Im wanted to add the single bar to our lineup to allow people a choice in addition to a configuration that was lower cost.
There is no doubt that this new design is WAAY overkill. But I like to build that! I may make a lighter duty variation of this design at some point aswell.
07_powerstroke
New member
What are some of the advantages with the full floating over the single pole Trevor?
Tree Trimmer
New member
- Joined
- May 22, 2011
- Messages
- 2,016
- Reaction score
- 0
hey, tarm, didnt we have a thread over on the other place, that discussed that in detail?? i cannot find it, if we did.
Yes we did. I will find it for us and link it here.
07 PS,
If this is a bit off on typing and spelling I apologize as I am on my phone.
There advantages and disadvantages between both setups. It has more to do with what your planned uses are more than anything. Honestly in looking at some of the criticism of Trevor's systems over on PSN way back before he became a vendor were actually quite amusing. (TT, Not talking about our threads discussions) It was painfully obvious how little many people understand how various traction's bars work and what exactly they are meant to stop.
First you have the triangulated bar which we can just call a 3 point bar. Then wee have a single pole or 2 point bar.
With a 3 point you have the two points at the top and bottom of the axle tube. The farther the separation between the two points the more effective and stronger the setup. Of the two the lower the bottom point the stronger as it creates more counter leverage force opposing the axles attempted upward rotation. With a 3 point system you need a shackled front point because the two points on the axle lock it in place and greatly limits any independent rotation as the axle cycles. This is handled by the shackle at the front very much as with a leaf spring. It handles the differences in arc of travel of the leaf spring vs the bar. This gives you the added strength of the triangle with 2 mount points on the axle tube as well as with shackle gives it as much adjustment for differences in travel as possible. I will not get into the effects of the systems to deal with squat and antisquat and how it has to do with traction and suspension force and effects of moving the front mounting points. So the front shackle when properly setup can allow for even the longest travel spring packs to fully cycle up and down. But there is also a weakness to this when you are using two of these ladder type bars. Because of the 2 points of mount at the axle it is locking in any lateral differences in travel otherwise called articulation. One wheel up fully compressing the suspension and one down fully extending it. With two of these ladder bars you are effectively turning the entire axle and bars into one big antisway bar as far as articulation goes. Think of how the two look they are very similar. On the street and for track use towing etc this can be a very good thing. It can actually improve handling. But if you were to have springs that flex and travel well and you were off road or did anything that put each wheel at oppsite ends of the suspension travel you can get binding just as you would with a sway bar. Infact this is why offroad setups remove them or have disconnects for them. In the case of a dual ladder traction bars it will either hold the one wheel from traveling or they will bend or joints break if they are not strong enough.
The force applied to a ladder type traction bar with a shackle is only directly upward when the axle tries to rotate upward which causes the leaf springs to wrap into a S shape. Many think the forces on the front of this type of traction bar are also forward and rearward but they are only up and down. Unless they go to the point of binding from to much articulation. Something that will never happen on the street track strip but only is hard use off road
Now the 2 point or straight bar can not have a shackle on the front as it only ties into the axle at one point. That point must be below the center line of the axle and the farther below the better ground clearance permitting. With these the longer the bar the better as far as travel goes as well as the ability to have it increase traction under force. The issues are mainly in setting up and in strength. Now you have all force going to one single bar and only the one axle point. As the bar has not means of increasing or decreasing its positions forward or rearward it must be setup properly to not cause binding if there is extreme travel of the axle. The benefit over the ladder type is because it only has the one joint on the axle it will allow the axle to articulate better and will not bind until much farther extreme angles are reached. The biggest thing is strength. Remember the force on the bar is of the axle pushing up on the bar this basically putting force upward on the joint and the bar itself. The more power traction and force the stronger the bar needs to be hence Trevor's general chart to help people figure it out. The main time you will get force that break mounts etc would be in a binding situation such as the bars path of travel is differing than that of the leaf springs in relation to the axles path. Again the longer the bar the better for single bars as a general rule without going to stupid lengths. But the longer the bar the stronger it needs to be to resist bending and or gussets welded in to increase rigidity and strength.
Now there are some things as far as joint types go that can minimize some of the weaknesses of each but they are basically fundamental to the type of bar you are running.
I am a form follows function kind of person so if it works better for my task I am going to pick it over one that looks cooler or badass etc.. I will take that little bit of extra perf.
07 PS,
If this is a bit off on typing and spelling I apologize as I am on my phone.
There advantages and disadvantages between both setups. It has more to do with what your planned uses are more than anything. Honestly in looking at some of the criticism of Trevor's systems over on PSN way back before he became a vendor were actually quite amusing. (TT, Not talking about our threads discussions) It was painfully obvious how little many people understand how various traction's bars work and what exactly they are meant to stop.
First you have the triangulated bar which we can just call a 3 point bar. Then wee have a single pole or 2 point bar.
With a 3 point you have the two points at the top and bottom of the axle tube. The farther the separation between the two points the more effective and stronger the setup. Of the two the lower the bottom point the stronger as it creates more counter leverage force opposing the axles attempted upward rotation. With a 3 point system you need a shackled front point because the two points on the axle lock it in place and greatly limits any independent rotation as the axle cycles. This is handled by the shackle at the front very much as with a leaf spring. It handles the differences in arc of travel of the leaf spring vs the bar. This gives you the added strength of the triangle with 2 mount points on the axle tube as well as with shackle gives it as much adjustment for differences in travel as possible. I will not get into the effects of the systems to deal with squat and antisquat and how it has to do with traction and suspension force and effects of moving the front mounting points. So the front shackle when properly setup can allow for even the longest travel spring packs to fully cycle up and down. But there is also a weakness to this when you are using two of these ladder type bars. Because of the 2 points of mount at the axle it is locking in any lateral differences in travel otherwise called articulation. One wheel up fully compressing the suspension and one down fully extending it. With two of these ladder bars you are effectively turning the entire axle and bars into one big antisway bar as far as articulation goes. Think of how the two look they are very similar. On the street and for track use towing etc this can be a very good thing. It can actually improve handling. But if you were to have springs that flex and travel well and you were off road or did anything that put each wheel at oppsite ends of the suspension travel you can get binding just as you would with a sway bar. Infact this is why offroad setups remove them or have disconnects for them. In the case of a dual ladder traction bars it will either hold the one wheel from traveling or they will bend or joints break if they are not strong enough.
The force applied to a ladder type traction bar with a shackle is only directly upward when the axle tries to rotate upward which causes the leaf springs to wrap into a S shape. Many think the forces on the front of this type of traction bar are also forward and rearward but they are only up and down. Unless they go to the point of binding from to much articulation. Something that will never happen on the street track strip but only is hard use off road
Now the 2 point or straight bar can not have a shackle on the front as it only ties into the axle at one point. That point must be below the center line of the axle and the farther below the better ground clearance permitting. With these the longer the bar the better as far as travel goes as well as the ability to have it increase traction under force. The issues are mainly in setting up and in strength. Now you have all force going to one single bar and only the one axle point. As the bar has not means of increasing or decreasing its positions forward or rearward it must be setup properly to not cause binding if there is extreme travel of the axle. The benefit over the ladder type is because it only has the one joint on the axle it will allow the axle to articulate better and will not bind until much farther extreme angles are reached. The biggest thing is strength. Remember the force on the bar is of the axle pushing up on the bar this basically putting force upward on the joint and the bar itself. The more power traction and force the stronger the bar needs to be hence Trevor's general chart to help people figure it out. The main time you will get force that break mounts etc would be in a binding situation such as the bars path of travel is differing than that of the leaf springs in relation to the axles path. Again the longer the bar the better for single bars as a general rule without going to stupid lengths. But the longer the bar the stronger it needs to be to resist bending and or gussets welded in to increase rigidity and strength.
Now there are some things as far as joint types go that can minimize some of the weaknesses of each but they are basically fundamental to the type of bar you are running.
I am a form follows function kind of person so if it works better for my task I am going to pick it over one that looks cooler or badass etc.. I will take that little bit of extra perf.
Tree Trimmer
New member
- Joined
- May 22, 2011
- Messages
- 2,016
- Reaction score
- 0
yup, thats the thread i was thinking of.
smokedout250
New member
Can A guy just get the blocks? That way a guy could start there and build his own
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
NotStock
New member
Yes, but also keep in mind that this is where 90% of the labor and materials go aswell. So the cost difference between the two is not all that substanial. BUT I am not opposed to selling just the blocks if you would like.
smokedout250
New member
No worrys! After looking at your website I will prolly be spending some money there this summer!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Members online
No members online now.