Tuner Less Noticable with a Manual or Just Not Working Right - PHP Hydra

[Freerider15]

So I got my PHP Hydra installed last night and took it for a spin. After hearing many stories of people having a permagrin after taking it for a spin (PHP or DP Tuner) I was looking forward to it.

However, I can't honestly really tell much difference, on 80HP Daily Driver

Normally I would think that the tuner isn't working, but the whisper mode and high idle I put in work just fine. When switching between programs, it flashes as it should...no errors or anything erroneous that would tell me its not working. The truck works just fine.

My truck is a 99.5 f-350 with the ZF6. Truck only has 129k on the clock, so a weak HPOP or injectors doesn't seem likely to me. Since I can't just get on the go pedal and go WOT, I'm wondering if it's harder for me to notice? I would however THINK that a 30%+ addition in HP (though in reality probably not a full 80 since I'm running stock injectors, turbo, and HPOP) would be rather noticeable in the SOTP feeling.

It does look like the previous owner had something installed. When I pulled the PCM, someone got over zealous in cleaning and pretty much all the pins were down to copper. While I might think this has something to do with it, I've read numerous other people saying they got overzealous and it works just fine, and I'm not having any issues with no start, and error codes, etc. I used to correct tuner codes, as I made sure I was using the correct hex code for my PCM.

So, anyone have ay experience with this? Is there an easy was to tell if the tuner is giving the output, and the PCM using it as it should?

 

[ja_cain]

Get torque app and blue tooth reader. Then you can easily compare stock vs tuned data to see if Pw, icp, ipr%, etc are significantly changing.

 

[Tom S]

Those pins can be retinned by someone with good soldering skills.

 

[Montgomery P-Stroke]

You should notice a major change just on the DD tune. I will say that my 80DD is still laggy compared to the 120 race program. Try reloading them on the chip and see if it's fixed....had the same problem with my brothers loading custom tunes.

 

[Freerider15]

Get torque app and blue tooth reader. Then you can easily compare stock vs tuned data to see if Pw, icp, ipr%, etc are significantly changing.

Thanks...that was something I've been meaning to do but completely forgot about until you mentioned it. imp:

I'm going to give that a try and see what number I get.

Those pins can be retinned by someone with good soldering skills.

Yeah that's what I've read. I'd have to find someone to do it is the thing.

You should notice a major change just on the DD tune. I will say that my 80DD is still laggy compared to the 120 race program. Try reloading them on the chip and see if it's fixed....had the same problem with my brothers loading custom tunes.

I'll try it again.

I'm going to get some reading from the blue tooth and see if the numbers show anything or not. That should give me a good baseline to go off of.

I'm not sure exactly what the PO did with the truck exactly. Luckily it seems the person did care about the truck. I did have the guy who did my emissions last time ask me if it was tuned. I told him not as far as I know, and why? He responded that it was more powerful than he's used to seeing in those years F-series (they do a lot of diesel emissions). I just attributed it to being a lower mile truck.

So....I'll report back with what I find from the bluetooth opcorn:

 

[FSJPat]

I didn't notice much of a change in 80DD mode either, I think a lot of that tune's changes are in the transmission programming for the auto, to change the firmness and timing of shift points. I did notice a difference, but I drive around in 100 Performance mode most of the time.

 

[Freerider15]

I didn't notice much of a change in 80DD mode either, I think a lot of that tune's changes are in the transmission programming for the auto, to change the firmness and timing of shift points. I did notice a difference, but I drive around in 100 Performance mode most of the time.

Yeah I'll have to see. As I said its not like I can just hit the go pedal, so actually having to shift might take away some of the perception.

I don't hot rod my truck at all in reality...i'm light on the throttle.

This truck is essentially just my tow rig. I've had it over two years now and have put maybe 4k on it.

 

[03ranger30]

Those pins can be retinned by someone with good soldering skills.

Yeah but if it had connection issues the truck wouldn't run.

I had that problem and had to get my PCM re-tinned. I sent if off to PHP and they took care of me reasonably fast.

 

[Freerider15]

Yeah but if it had connection issues the truck wouldn't run.

I had that problem and had to get my PCM re-tinned. I sent if off to PHP and they took care of me reasonably fast.

Yeah, since I'm not having any issues at all with the truck...I'm not thinking a re-tinning is needed.

I did notice that turning on my HID headlights did make the truck stumble for a second :lookaround:

I'll make sure to turn those on before starting the truck from now on.

 

[Freerider15]

Allllllrighty...now for the numbers!

First off...I have to say the Torque Pro App is awesome! :clapping:

Considering I have all of $4.95 into reading the truck (friend gave me the bluetooth reader he got since he didn't realize it's not Apple compatible), I like it!

So numbers...Stock:

With 80HP DD Tune:

So, in the short of it...I'd say its working just looking at the numbers from what I've seen around?

I did a WOT (as much as you can with a manual) run onto the interstate in both stock and 80DD, what is what the numbers above represent.

I'd say its working, since it actually somewhat scared me in the WOT test with 80DD (though part of that is due to my draglink needing replaced since its got a bad TRE, and it drizzling/wet out).

Some of the reason I don't think I noticed it:
1.) These trucks are geared SO damn low that its hard to notice it in the lower gears.
2.) I kinda drive with a rather light right foot. In my truck, I'm not a throttle jockey...more of a graaaadual acceleration (I want my truck to last, not totally kill my MPG, etc.) My car on the other hand...I have a heavy right foot.

BUT, I think the MAIN reason I wasn't noticing it before...I was WAY low on oil. How low? Well, I wasn't even registering on the dipstick :fustrate:

I just recently did a complete HPOP reseal along with the RiffRaff FRx, and I don't think I realized how much oil I lost doing that. I filled the HPOP reservoir up after it was done, but didn't have any extra to put it the main pan. Well, of course I get the Hydra in and forget about needing to put more oil in since I'm like a little kid with a new toy...

Luckily I had maybe all of 5 miles of driving on it before the light went off in my head. I don't think I had enough oil to get the injector pressure up.

So...reviewing numbers...would the peanut gallery agree it looks to be working? Sometimes the power of suggestion can be enough to make a person think it is what it is, so I'd like to verify it with others.

 

[Jomax]

Pics aren't working. But let me tell ya, in my DP 80eco. I can tell a difference, BIG difference. You could already have a tune in your pcm.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

 

[Freerider15]

Well, back to square one I guess.

Drove it around today (to go get a new draglink), and I'm back to feeling like there's no difference in the stock vs. 80DD tune.

I pulled the ICP connector. It was a little oily on the inside of the connector. However, other than the SEL being on, and a stubly idle...no difference.

Ugh...now where to look?

 

[ja_cain]

Allllllrighty...now for the numbers!

First off...I have to say the Torque Pro App is awesome! :clapping:

Considering I have all of $4.95 into reading the truck (friend gave me the bluetooth reader he got since he didn't realize it's not Apple compatible), I like it!

So numbers...Stock:

With 80HP DD Tune:

So, in the short of it...I'd say its working just looking at the numbers from what I've seen around?

I did a WOT (as much as you can with a manual) run onto the interstate in both stock and 80DD, what is what the numbers above represent.

I'd say its working, since it actually somewhat scared me in the WOT test with 80DD (though part of that is due to my draglink needing replaced since its got a bad TRE, and it drizzling/wet out).

Some of the reason I don't think I noticed it:
1.) These trucks are geared SO damn low that its hard to notice it in the lower gears.
2.) I kinda drive with a rather light right foot. In my truck, I'm not a throttle jockey...more of a graaaadual acceleration (I want my truck to last, not totally kill my MPG, etc.) My car on the other hand...I have a heavy right foot.

BUT, I think the MAIN reason I wasn't noticing it before...I was WAY low on oil. How low? Well, I wasn't even registering on the dipstick :fustrate:

I just recently did a complete HPOP reseal along with the RiffRaff FRx, and I don't think I realized how much oil I lost doing that. I filled the HPOP reservoir up after it was done, but didn't have any extra to put it the main pan. Well, of course I get the Hydra in and forget about needing to put more oil in since I'm like a little kid with a new toy...

Luckily I had maybe all of 5 miles of driving on it before the light went off in my head. I don't think I had enough oil to get the injector pressure up.

So...reviewing numbers...would the peanut gallery agree it looks to be working? Sometimes the power of suggestion can be enough to make a person think it is what it is, so I'd like to verify it with others.

First, what is with the two MAP gauges. Is one with the atmo offset? Your ICP looks a little low. I can hit 2800'ish with with an IPR of around 39% and I have a ZF6 with no tunes. Can you post up a screen shot in the stock setting at idle. I should be able to tell from that which is which. You may have a few different things going on. The IPR with the 80 tune seems high at 60% but I don't have experience with a tuned truck. I bet you have a boost/exhaust side leak and possibly a weak HPOP (or sticking IPR) that is not ramping up very fast hence the high IPR percent. You are hitting a pretty high pressure but can't tell the rate of rise unless you datalog it.

 

[ja_cain]

Since the top map is showing a low of around 0 psi and high of 5.2 it looks like you clearly have an exhaust leak or the fueling is terrible thus not spooling the turbo well. Ill post up on of mine when I have a chance to show what I'm talking about.

 

[Freerider15]

First, what is with the two MAP gauges. Is one with the atmo offset? Your ICP looks a little low. I can hit 2800'ish with with an IPR of around 39% and I have a ZF6 with no tunes. Can you post up a screen shot in the stock setting at idle. I should be able to tell from that which is which. You may have a few different things going on. The IPR with the 80 tune seems high at 60% but I don't have experience with a tuned truck. I bet you have a boost/exhaust side leak and possibly a weak HPOP (or sticking IPR) that is not ramping up very fast hence the high IPR percent. You are hitting a pretty high pressure but can't tell the rate of rise unless you datalog it.

Honestly, can't think of why I do...or why they're different right now.

I'll work on getting a shot of the stock screen just sitting at idle.

Since the top map is showing a low of around 0 psi and high of 5.2 it looks like you clearly have an exhaust leak or the fueling is terrible thus not spooling the turbo well. Ill post up on of mine when I have a chance to show what I'm talking about.

Ok, would appreciate that. I wonder if I'm leaking around my up pipes or something...

HOWEVER...I'm also thinking I might have a issue with my PCM and the fact of how the previous owner got over zealous with cleaning.

Went out to dinner and then ran an errand after. When we were leaving from dinner, when I went to start the truck, the SEL was on and the truck wouldn't start. Turned it back off, sat for a second, and it started back up fine. After coming out from the errand, I went to pull out of the parking spot, depressed the pedal...nothing. No response at all from the throttle. Turned it off, let it sit for a few, started it back up and were fine again.

So yeah, might need to look into the PCM. I'm getting to the point of pulling the hydra and dealing with it later at this point...

 

[dsberman94]

Can I give a suggestion. Drive the truck for a few hours in the stock tune. Not the 00 bypass tune, but the stock tune that you load. That is an actual tune, not a bypass.

Then drive it in a higher tune. You should notice a difference in the way the turbo spools, any smoke output from the exhaust. Things like that. In my experience the generic hydra tunes weren't much different down low from stock. But under a heavy foot, they felt like they had more power.

Also with the truck not moving, in neutral, you should be able to notice a pedal response difference between stock and a power tune. On a tune it should respond noticeably quicker than stock with just a quick rev of the engine. Stock should seem a bit laggy and not as responsive.

I'm willing to bet one of the previous owners had a small tune flashed to the computer and left there. A lot of people do so you may be used to driving a truck with an 80ho tune already on it. Try the things I mentioned and report back with what you find.

 

[Freerider15]

Can I give a suggestion. Drive the truck for a few hours in the stock tune. Not the 00 bypass tune, but the stock tune that you load. That is an actual tune, not a bypass.

Then drive it in a higher tune. You should notice a difference in the way the turbo spools, any smoke output from the exhaust. Things like that. In my experience the generic hydra tunes weren't much different down low from stock. But under a heavy foot, they felt like they had more power.

Also with the truck not moving, in neutral, you should be able to notice a pedal response difference between stock and a power tune. On a tune it should respond noticeably quicker than stock with just a quick rev of the engine. Stock should seem a bit laggy and not as responsive.

I'm willing to bet one of the previous owners had a small tune flashed to the computer and left there. A lot of people do so you may be used to driving a truck with an 80ho tune already on it. Try the things I mentioned and report back with what you find.

Been doing that essentially. I'll drive around for a bit in the stock tune, to set that as my base line. After a little bit i'll switch it to the 80DD to see if I feel any difference...nadda. I did sit there and rev it in both modes in the driveway...nothing seemed different. I have someone local who is on a 4x4 forum I'm on who installed a Hydra in his not too long ago. I might try and get with him to get reference points.

I do wish there were a way to tell if mine has a tune on the PCM itself. Guess I could always buy another PCM and find out! LOL

I kind of wonder if it would be worth send to Jody (or Bill if he does it) to have it re-tinned and test the PCM to see if the tunes are "working" on it (if they can do that).

 

[dsberman94]

You can bring the PCM to a dealership and have them flash it, but they're going to charge you atleast $100

 

[ja_cain]

Here it is. Did wot run in third. Truck clearly has boost/exhaust side leak because it blacked out the back road I was on. Ha! Ha! You will have to take the boost and bp numbers with a grain of salt since I have not plugged my red tube back in as I think it's a bad idea to run it this way hard. Turbo doesn't like high drive pressures (high delta p). I never run the piss out of my truck and thus i had forgotten it was unplugged.

 

[ja_cain]

Dude, I just realized that Pw seems pretty high to me. I really need to data log injector parameter vs rpm so I can get a better picture of what is going on.