38r to sxe

[hucorey]

The updated KC38R is pretty much identical. The turbine is a reverse rotation/reverse engineered s300sxe series wheel.

Being smoke free and at 1500 rpm, sure, I can do that in tuning, but as I mentioned, I'm even towing in my hot race tune.

Boost at 1500rpm. I'm sure it'll hit 15 no problem while pulling grade. But just driving flat highway, it's around 5-7 depends on speed.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[mikeeg02]

Ah, the updated version. I would actually like to see a video of what boost it can make at 1,500 rather than an "I'm sure it can......" not being cynical, just a realist. The reason I said smoke free is because even a laggier turbo can make more boost like that if you throw enough fuel (heat) at it. Though with the same tuning as I have now and a garret 38r, 15+ psi at 1500 rpm I'm pretty sure is impossible, and would definitely be a smoke show.

I'd like to see if the BB center is enough to offset the heavier comp wheel versus the FMW and journal bearing that comes in my sxe.

 

[LakeBum]

The updated KC38R is pretty much identical. The turbine is a reverse rotation/reverse engineered s300sxe series wheel.

Are the compressor housing and exhaust housing the same between the GTP38 and SXE turbos?

 

[hucorey]

Are the compressor housing and exhaust housing the same between the GTP38 and SXE turbos?

Definitely not. The GTP38 is a stock turbo on the 99-03 trucks.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[LakeBum]

Definitely not. The GTP38 is a stock turbo on the 99-03 trucks.

I should have asked: Are the compressor housing and exhaust housing the same between the KC 'SXE Style' turbos and the BW SXE turbos?

 

[hucorey]

Compressor housing, probably pretty similar, exhaust side...sorta besides it not being T4 flange.

This would be a question better answered by the man himself though.

@Kcturbos


Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[ja_cain]

Compressor housing, probably pretty similar, exhaust side...sorta besides it not being T4 flange.

This would be a question better answered by the man himself though.

@Kcturbos


Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Exactly! Is the Ford/Navistar flange style as efficent as a T4 in this scenario? In other words, does it proved the same amount of energy or more on the exhaust side? I have been wondering the same thing the past few months.

 

[ja_cain]

Sometimes I feel like I just provide background noise to these threads. Lol! I know I don't get everything right (I might about 10% of the time), but I did state that the KC38R was updated earlier in the thread. I swear If I ever step in some money I will do some due diligence and provide some n=1 data on all of these 300 frame turbos. Someone needs to. I do have access to a dyno if I really need one.

 

[KCTurbos]

Exactly! Is the Ford/Navistar flange style as efficent as a T4 in this scenario? In other words, does it proved the same amount of energy or more on the exhaust side? I have been wondering the same thing the past few months.

The t4 flange on the SXE itself has VERY LITTLE to do with the performance success of the SXE turbos (or any turbo for that matter).. if it did then everyone would love the OBS turbos because they are a true T4 turbine housing straight from the factory. But we all know how well the obs turbos perform. You would NEVER see someone take the time to swap in an OBS t4 turbo into a superduty because it is a t4 turbo. I actually know guys who swear by the t3 gated housing over the t4 housing but that is a subject for another thread/day.

The whole "t4" thing gets pretty confusing because of the fact that many guys calls it a "t4 swap" when it fact you are swapping on a better performing/more advanced turbo... not just a t4 flange.

With that said the "vband" style housings perform very well and are sold in a wide variety of applications. It is NOT a ford/navistar flange. They are actually getting really popular in other applications because of how much easier they are to install and how well they work in other applications. Don't believe me... feel free to google search.

Here is a link for those guys wondering about it not being a ford/navistar flange
https://frsport.com/Garrett-Divided...MI4Nnb9bTB1gIVVrXACh1PRwEXEAQYASABEgIqgfD_BwE

Also here are some links to other platforms outside the diesel world talking about how well they work
http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?978353-Turbo-inlet-flange-v-band-vs.-T4&



Now the comp cover... the comp cover on the superduty covers seem to flow very well. It has huge volutes and a 1.0 A/R. It is more similar in size to what you would find on an s400 turbo. But honestly the compressor cover science is limited and not as "obvious" as the turbine housings.


So, now that we have gotten past the turibne/comrpessor housing. I can tell you that changing over to the SXE style wheels has made a HUGE difference. INCREDIBLE according to all testers/customer. Turbos spool WAY faster, run cooler, make more boost, etc.

But I can't tell you how they compare exactly to a genuine SXE t4 turbo because we have not tested it back to back. And even if we did then there would always be the "nay sayers" about how something was not done right, tuning wasnt right, probably had a boost/exhaust leak, etc (on both sides)



There will always be pluses and minuses to each setup. Cost vs ease vs variety vs etc... I am not out there making threads and boasting about how the t4 kit is obsolete or pointless. We are just doing our best to make the best drop in turbos possible and keep pushing our line forward



It could be said that a lot of the performance gains from a t4 kit could come from better flowing cac tubes/spyder setup. It could also come from better flowing up pipes and/or the fact that you finally fixed all your boost/exhaust leaks for sure while changing out everything. That could be why some guys have great luck with even the old garrett 38r while others hate it and switch to the "t4 turbos".




I would rather this not turn into a pissing contest thread... I always hate those. But if anyone has anymore specific questions then I will try and answer them without causing the typical bashing thread that these always turn into.

 

[KCTurbos]

Sometimes I feel like I just provide background noise to these threads. Lol! I know I don't get everything right (I might about 10% of the time), but I did state that the KC38R was updated earlier in the thread. I swear If I ever step in some money I will do some due diligence and provide some n=1 data on all of these 300 frame turbos. Someone needs to. I do have access to a dyno if I really need one.

I attempted to do that on the 6.0 platform... and have posted it 100s of times... but it does not seem to help anything LOL. The same questions still always get asked. I even made a cool graph comparing all of them.



Here is a graph comparing the 362 vs 364.5 vs 369

 

[ja_cain]

I love it! Thanks for the info man. Just what I was looking for.

 

[ja_cain]

I attempted to do that on the 6.0 platform... and have posted it 100s of times... but it does not seem to help anything LOL. The same questions still always get asked. I even made a cool graph comparing all of them.



Here is a graph comparing the 362 vs 364.5 vs 369

I need to hang out in the 6.0 forum more. Lol! Good stuff!

 

[mikeeg02]

The whole "t4" thing gets pretty confusing because of the fact that many guys calls it a "t4 swap" when it fact you are swapping on a better performing/more advanced turbo... not just a t4 flange.


Now the comp cover... the comp cover on the superduty covers seem to flow very well. It has huge volutes and a 1.0 A/R. It is more similar in size to what you would find on an s400 turbo. But honestly the compressor cover science is limited and not as "obvious" as the turbine housings.


So, now that we have gotten past the turibne/comrpessor housing. I can tell you that changing over to the SXE style wheels has made a HUGE difference. INCREDIBLE according to all testers/customer. Turbos spool WAY faster, run cooler, make more boost, etc.

But I can't tell you how they compare exactly to a genuine SXE t4 turbo because we have not tested it back to back. And even if we did then there would always be the "nay sayers" about how something was not done right, tuning wasnt right, probably had a boost/exhaust leak, etc (on both sides)



There will always be pluses and minuses to each setup. Cost vs ease vs variety vs etc... I am not out there making threads and boasting about how the t4 kit is obsolete or pointless. We are just doing our best to make the best drop in turbos possible and keep pushing our line forward



It could be said that a lot of the performance gains from a t4 kit could come from better flowing cac tubes/spyder setup. It could also come from better flowing up pipes and/or the fact that you finally fixed all your boost/exhaust leaks for sure while changing out everything. That could be why some guys have great luck with even the old garrett 38r while others hate it and switch to the "t4 turbos".


I would rather this not turn into a pissing contest thread... I always hate those. But if anyone has anymore specific questions then I will try and answer them without causing the typical bashing thread that these always turn into.

I agree with all of the above, and one of the things I like about the t4 setup is the ability to run any manufacturers t4 turbo. (Not that I feel the need to swap at this point, but another super core is ~$650) What you guys are doing is bringing the sxe line to the drop in platform, and that is huge! The reason I ask about hucorey about how his is working, is he has one, and I dont know anyone else with that setup, and naturally I am curious just how good it is (if not better) than how mine works. Because if it has comparable performance to how mine works, then naturally I would like to help you advertise. Most people do bellowed pipes and such and dont need new uppipes and can save the money, especially if it works in the ball park of how I think my setup works.

Also, please dont take my questions on your turbos performance as anything but curious on how well it works. If people can get the gains over the 38r that I have accomplished (better, worse, or the same) in a drop in, I think that is fantastic. And something a lot of people in this community have been waiting for. I've told a lot of people if they can hold off to wait for your turbo to be released. I am just also very interested in its performance! No pissing match required. imp:

 

[KCTurbos]

No pissing match required. imp:

:thumbup:

I am all about sharing info... but for some reason it often leads to drama/pissing matches and I hate that part.


I got a couple messages about wanting full size versions of the dyno graphs I posted up... anyone interested just send me an email

[email protected]

 

[psduser1]

No complaints here. I will see 12-15lbs at 1500RPM with 160s and a 364.5 SXE.

Ive had a couple guys tell me this. Mikeeg02 has a very similar setup to mine, so just for s&g, I tried the topgear 1500 rpm thing today. Roughly 4-7 psi from 14-1500 rpm, very little smoke. Granted I was empty, on a mild hill.
I'll have about 10k on this weekend, which will put me about 18.5-19k, gross. Should be close enough for a rough comparison.

 

[ja_cain]

Ive had a couple guys tell me this. Mikeeg02 has a very similar setup to mine, so just for s&g, I tried the topgear 1500 rpm thing today. Roughly 4-7 psi from 14-1500 rpm, very little smoke. Granted I was empty, on a mild hill.
I'll have about 10k on this weekend, which will put me about 18.5-19k, gross. Should be close enough for a rough comparison.

Can't wait to see what your numbers look like Joe. Let us know both cruising flat roads and pulling grades.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[MeTo]

Thanks for taking the time Charlie, much appreciated.

Now, if I could only read the small captions.

 

[mikeeg02]

Ive had a couple guys tell me this. Mikeeg02 has a very similar setup to mine, so just for s&g, I tried the topgear 1500 rpm thing today. Roughly 4-7 psi from 14-1500 rpm, very little smoke. Granted I was empty, on a mild hill.
I'll have about 10k on this weekend, which will put me about 18.5-19k, gross. Should be close enough for a rough comparison.

That sounds similar to mine empty. I may get a little better than that, but it usually picks up rpms. Loaded heavy and the right grade are what it takes to make 15+ at that low rpm. Though obviously I don't recommend that for anything other than testing. What turbo do you have under there anyways?

 

[ja_cain]

Pretty sure its a 38r and a zf6. Not sure on his gearing or if he has an aftermarket wheel in his.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[mikeeg02]

I thought so. But I couldn't remember. When I had my 38r, I think 4-5 was possible. But nothing more with out making a lot of smoke. Mine didn't really want to come to life closer to 17-1800 IIRC.