6.0 injector stiction discussion

[Lassie]

What exactly is it going to damage? An injector that is already junk? If that's the way you want to look at it, I can just re-phrase what I'm doing, and extending the service life of an injector already on it's way out. I don't think anyone is trying to mask that these oil additives are merely delaying the inevitable, but they're a nice option for guys who don't want to dive in and replace injectors right away.

Some do run it as preventative maintenance though. Do we have any proof that lower viscosity would damage turbo bearings or other bearings for that matter? Like anything I read about, I rarely take anything and run with it, I always have to prove it out myself. I'd love to see documentation showing how reduced oil viscosity damages those components. :thumbsup: Or we should start a new thread on it.

Missed my point buddy. It's not your injectors I'm considering...it's the cam, crank, and rod bearings.....the turbo bushings and bearings...etc. If you want to test, PUT REV-X IN CLEAR DISPLAY CASE WITH OIL, and spin the wheel, as already said.

 

[Mdub707]

I didn't miss your point, I'm just saying I'm taking it with a grain of salt. No offense. I just don't believe everything posted on the internet for obvious reasons. I don't see how putting oil and rev-x in a clear case with gears is a good measurement for what is going on inside the motor. For one, they're not even in the same operating temperature range, among many other differences. I'm sure if I did do the test you suggest, the oil may not stick to surfaces as easily, but what does that prove? Lowers viscosity, ok... but guys who have run lower viscosity oils don't seem to have the same effects as guys who have run the additives have. How much lower is it making it? Surely there are some oil analysis samples out there of someone running rev-x. I'll look around and see if I can dig some up. I'll be sure to pay attention to oil viscosity as well. I wouldn't mind trying it with my stuff I have now. Maybe after 1k miles I will send in for analysis and see what's up with my oil.

I just fail to see how the clear case with gears is a fair comparison. Even if the oil falls off the gears easier... is that really a bad thing? Doesn't mean it's not lubricated. Know what I mean?

I'd still love to see the documentation that shows the lower viscosity oil is damaging to cam, crank, rod bearings and turbo bushings and bearings.

Do you have any other proof that running HSS, Rev-X, or Archoil 9100 is going to damage ANYTHING in my engine other than the plastic case with gears scenario?

 

[dasboot]

I'll put my 2 cents in for what it is worth, most of you will forget than I will ever learn.
Injectors are like anything else, sooner or later they are going to wear out and/or fail. can we do things to prevent premature failure. Yes, fuel addatives and good maintenance is better than none what so ever.
New injectors, remans, rebuild and clean yourself. What ever you can aford. You do what you got to do. If mine failed and if I could pull mine, I think if it came to having them rebuilt from a local shop over new ones due to money and what I use my truck for. I'll do what is best $$ and time wise.

 

[Mdub707]

I'll put my 2 cents in for what it is worth, most of you will forget than I will ever learn.
Injectors are like anything else, sooner or later they are going to wear out and/or fail. can we do things to prevent premature failure. Yes, fuel addatives and good maintenance is better than none what so ever.
New injectors, remans, rebuild and clean yourself. What ever you can aford. You do what you got to do. If mine failed and if I could pull mine, I think if it came to having them rebuilt from a local shop over new ones due to money and what I use my truck for. I'll do what is best $$ and time wise.

There is the issue that all of us face. The problem is company A sells rebuilt injectors and company B does as well, but they're not built the same way. There are only 2 or 3 companies that I know of that actually replace spool valves. Ford is one of them. So you pay more for the reman injectors, but you know they're good. There are no "new" injectors anymore, everything you get is reman.

 

[01PSD]

And it's damn $$$!!!!! 250 bucks PER injector

 

[Mdub707]

And it's damn $$$!!!!! 250 bucks PER injector

Right, without core charges as well. However, if you buy cheap remans from ebay and have to replace them several times and keep diving under your valve covers and miss work/etc... is it worth it???

Anyways, the whole point of this discussion is stiction specifically and if there are easier ways to remedy it or possibly even FIX it without having to buy any injectors! That's what we all want!

 

[jdc753]

I actually ordered it from a place called KT Performance, they've treated me very well in the past. I got hooked up with them as a sponsor from another forum I was a part of. I always order from site sponsors whether here or other forums.

Yup, Kenny at KT is a good guy, I've bought a few things from him back in the PSN days. I know a bunch of local friends who have also done a good bit of business with him and all good things to say.

I will tell you, I ran Valvoline 15w-40 ONCE. I went to buy oil, saw that on sale, figured I'd try it. WORST OIL I've run to date. My truck started rough, smoked, and idled like crap. Injector stiction seemed much worse. I was running Rotella 15w-40 right before that. I didn't even make it the full 5k miles on that oil change I couldn't take it anymore, drained the Valvoline out (Premium blue) and went back with Rotella, problems went away again (or at least back to where it was before). Just thought that might be worth mentioning. I haven't tried motorcraft oil though. These trucks seem to tell you what they like and don't like.

I've heard the same thing about the Schaeffers too, seems to be mixed reviews on that honestly. Some guys swear by it, others have noticed the same thing you said.

I do have a single spare injector here that is going to be my test bench, I will pull it apart and start messing with it. I will definitely post pictures as I go. I am by no means an expert with 6.0 injectors, but if my life lessons have taught me anything, I'm not going to learn anything until I take the damn thing apart and look at it. opcorn:

Yup, we've had the conversation on facebook a while back. I have never tried the rotella, and after the schaeffer's incident, at least for my truck I am just going to continue with what it has liked. Same as you will stick with the rotella, gotta use what works.

I'm definitely looking forward to what you find out with the injector work. :thumbsup:

 

[Mdub707]

A good bit of info on the make up of rev-x and archoil and how they work, for those inquiring minds...

http://www.thedieselgarage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112058

Some points of Archoil worth mentioning here, from the president of Evergreen America, makers of Archoil (who has been pretty straight forward with giving information out about his product and the chemical composition of it)

"The synthetic ester matrix complex is what the nano borate is mixed with for distribution in the fluid system, it dissolves carbon and varnish for the nano borate to chelate and form a uniform surface especially in high friction areas."

1. I could not find a relationship between potassium and borate in the product
2. May be used in high pressurized systems
3. Dosage is 1.12 oz per quart, you can average this out so 16oz will do the job just fine
4. Add at every oil drain, you may easily double the oil drain cycle
5. Oil viscosity is not affected
6. Excellent for turbo and high heat environments
7. Fluid systems which perform more efficient with less friction benefit. If friction is required like an automatic transmission then it would not be used there

 

[DHFF]

Good enough for me...... I'll try it.

Mike get that injector tore down! I wanna see someone else ruin one before I do.......

 

[clayton bigsby]

if my inflatable date was still around, we'd drink a beer and tear into it this weekend:gun:

 

[Atsah]

I never changed oil over 4K on either truck, my injectors lasted 130K without to much trouble.. The last 10K of the 130K I had to plug the truck in otherwise it would sound like it was comming apart at the seems.. When they started giving me trouble over 50F I replaced them with OEM injectors at $200 each and drove them another 50K before selling the trucks..

There is no magic to fixing 6.0 injectors, keep whatever oil the truck likes in it clean, use a good fuel additive with cetane and replace the fuel filters every 8K and drive it until they need to be replaced, that is part of the cost of owning a 6.0..

Look at the cost of a shop replacing all eight on a Duramax, I considered myself lucky to have mine done so cheap.. Considering the service and the capability of the truck I don't think paying $2,400 to have someone else replace all 8 is a big deal..

Anytime I considered the purchase of a diesel powered pickup truck, I had 10 grand sitting aside just to replace parts, if I didn't have that I would not have bought one..

Anyone that buys any diesel truck that doesn't have some cash hidden somewhere for a major repair and depends on the truck for a daily driver has made a mistake buying one..

 

[DHFF]

if my inflatable date was still around, we'd drink a beer and tear into it this weekend:gun:

RIP.......

 

[DHFF]

I never changed oil over 4K on either truck, my injectors lasted 130K without to much trouble.. The last 10K of the 130K I had to plug the truck in otherwise it would sound like it was comming apart at the seems.. When they started giving me trouble over 50F I replaced them with OEM injectors at $200 each and drove them another 50K before selling the trucks..

There is no magic to fixing 6.0 injectors, keep whatever oil the truck likes in it clean, use a good fuel additive with cetane and replace the fuel filters every 8K and drive it until they need to be replaced, that is part of the cost of owning a 6.0..

Look at the cost of a shop replacing all eight on a Duramax, I considered myself lucky to have mine done so cheap.. Considering the service and the capability of the truck I don't think paying $2,400 to have someone else replace all 8 is a big deal..

Anytime I considered the purchase of a diesel powered pickup truck, I had 10 grand sitting aside just to replace parts, if I didn't have that I would not have bought one..

Anyone that buys any diesel truck that doesn't have some cash hidden somewhere for a major repair and depends on the truck for a daily driver has made a mistake buying one..[/QUOTE]



Oops.... :doh:

 

[Mdub707]

if my inflatable date was still around, we'd drink a beer and tear into it this weekend:gun:

I'm sure you've got spares floating around in the garage. The beer we can drink regardless. I'll see if I can find the injector. Maybe I'll grab one of the intake manifolds for you to tear into as well.

I never changed oil over 4K on either truck, my injectors lasted 130K without to much trouble.. The last 10K of the 130K I had to plug the truck in otherwise it would sound like it was comming apart at the seems.. When they started giving me trouble over 50F I replaced them with OEM injectors at $200 each and drove them another 50K before selling the trucks..

There is no magic to fixing 6.0 injectors, keep whatever oil the truck likes in it clean, use a good fuel additive with cetane and replace the fuel filters every 8K and drive it until they need to be replaced, that is part of the cost of owning a 6.0..

Look at the cost of a shop replacing all eight on a Duramax, I considered myself lucky to have mine done so cheap.. Considering the service and the capability of the truck I don't think paying $2,400 to have someone else replace all 8 is a big deal..

Anytime I considered the purchase of a diesel powered pickup truck, I had 10 grand sitting aside just to replace parts, if I didn't have that I would not have bought one..

Anyone that buys any diesel truck that doesn't have some cash hidden somewhere for a major repair and depends on the truck for a daily driver has made a mistake buying one..

Obviously fixing an injector is cheaper than replacement though. Do you buy a new truck every time you have a problem with one? No, it just doesn't make sense. For me, even though I could afford a new injector to replace this one, what fun is that? I'd rather try and learn something and see if it can't be fixed for cheap. What do I have to lose right? I'd be no worse off than just buying a new injector, except I would have learned about the insides of the injector in the process. I don't depend on this truck as a daily driver anymore either, that's what I have my TDI for. $2400 for 8 new injectors is a big deal for some people. Why spend that much if you can spend $200 on gaskets and cleaning supplies to fix stiction in the injectors? Possibly extending their life? Right? If your method is to just buy new and be done with it, so be it. I'm not knocking that in any way. I just hate throwing something away that I can fix with a little time and research.

 

[Atsah]

I'm sure you've got spares floating around in the garage. The beer we can drink regardless. I'll see if I can find the injector. Maybe I'll grab one of the intake manifolds for you to tear into as well.




Obviously fixing an injector is cheaper than replacement though. Do you buy a new truck every time you have a problem with one? No, it just doesn't make sense. For me, even though I could afford a new injector to replace this one, what fun is that? I'd rather try and learn something and see if it can't be fixed for cheap. What do I have to lose right? I'd be no worse off than just buying a new injector, except I would have learned about the insides of the injector in the process. I don't depend on this truck as a daily driver anymore either, that's what I have my TDI for. $2400 for 8 new injectors is a big deal for some people. Why spend that much if you can spend $200 on gaskets and cleaning supplies to fix stiction in the injectors? Possibly extending their life? Right? If your method is to just buy new and be done with it, so be it. I'm not knocking that in any way. I just hate throwing something away that I can fix with a little time and research.

I'm not knocking your attempt to fix the sticktion problem, if you do, you will become a millionaire..

As far as someone not having $2.400 to replace all eight at once if needed is poor planning IMO.. If said person doesn't have the money to replace the relatively cheap injectors what are they going to do when the head gaskets blow, the oil cooler clogs, or HPOP shi!s the bed? What kind of thinking is that?

 

[DHFF]

I'm not knocking your attempt to fix the sticktion problem, if you do, you will become a millionaire..

As far as someone not having $2.400 to replace all eight at once if needed is poor planning IMO.. If said person doesn't have the money to replace the relatively cheap injectors what are they going to do when the head gaskets blow, the oil cooler clogs, or HPOP shi!s the bed? What kind of thinking is that?

Instead of an injector stiction thread you might as well make it a financial planning thread then. You are basically saying instead of learning anything about your vehicle, just make enough money for some other jackoff to fix it? Well done. :doh:

 

[clayton bigsby]

Instead of an injector stiction thread you might as well make it a financial planning thread then. You are basically saying instead of learning anything about your vehicle, just make enough money for some other jackoff to fix it? Well done. :doh:

well said there sweet cheeks, I'd rather have mike do the research and let me know what the outcome is.. works for meostwhore2::flipa:

 

[Mdub707]

well said there sweet cheeks, I'd rather have mike do the research and let me know what the outcome is.. works for meostwhore2::flipa:

Love the new avatar buddy LOL

 

[Atsah]

Not knocking you at all Mike, you allways have good information in your threads and I think you know I respect your opinions..

I can allways tell who the guys are with no money.. LOL

 

[jdc753]

I can allways tell who the guys are with no money.. LOL

Do we really make it that obvious?? LOL