B-code VS Hybrid Injectors

dzldoctor · Jul 28, 2011

I am currently running a set of b-code injectors. 235cc /200 nozzle. i am using the stealth drop in. Have an H2e modded to 66mm and all the other necessities. These seem laggy/slightly smoky. Have used 2 different reputable tuners. Just light grey haze especially when towing. Just dyno'ed truck 2 weeks ago 493hp/1054tq. Thouhgt it should have been a squeak more. Looking at all the talk on Hybrids and wondering if it is worth changing out my injetcors. Wouldn't mind a bit more power, just more concerned when towing. If the hybrids are all around better, I am ready for a set. What are your thoughts.

Strokersace · Jul 28, 2011

No info to share but subscribing...

I've got Hypermax 2.5's which are very close to your cc size but with .010 nozzles (not sure what that equates to in %). They're capable of 525hp about max with all the right mods and components. I'm considering going to modded b-codes but thought they were more cc's from the factory.

racehauler · Jul 28, 2011

You aren't going to get rid of the haze by changing to a hybrid injector if you stick with the same nozzle you have now.

Your issue is tuning.
Reputable tuner or guy on the street corner, it will take a few stabs at getting the tuning right with the nozzles you have. The tuning must be perfect with 200% or larger nozzles, not just kinda close like most tunes are for stock nozzles.

dzldoctor · Jul 28, 2011

My nozzle's are 7 hole, .0012 edm which I was told is equivalent to a 200% over nozzle jst for a little more clarification.

Hotrodtractor · Jul 28, 2011

dzldoctor said:
My nozzle's are 7 hole, .0012 edm which I was told is equivalent to a 200% over nozzle jst for a little more clarification.

Are your B-codes splits or single shots? 0.012 EDM tips are similar - but not identical to 200% tips and have different qualities about them. Are there any other modifications done to the injectors other than a tips swap? What are you goals, wants, needs, etc?

You very well could be good with just sending them into a reputable shop and having them gone through - or some live tuning to work on the exact problems your having - its hard to tell without more information.

dzldoctor · Jul 28, 2011

They are single shots. No other known work to the injectors. Goals? Needs? Wants? Not real sure? looking for 500-550 with ability to tow snowmobiles to the mountains/boat etc occasional track/truck pull. I am sure that live tuning would help. They perform well, just always seem to have the grey haze anytime I'm part throttle, wide open cleans up nice. Its just the small to light acceleration, especially when towing. Fairly fresh engine about 20K on it. Just looking for good all around daily driver with POWER like. all of us..

MINK · Jul 28, 2011

Why not add more air? A nice set of compounds with some live tuning may be the ticket for you.

JDub · Jul 28, 2011

I ran both hybrids and B-codes in my 2002 truck. I preferred the idle quality, EGT control and overall driveability with the b-codes, they made better power on the dyno too. Mine were just stock b-codes with an .008 extrude honed nozzle, not sure what that equates to in %.

dzldoctor · Jul 28, 2011

I was under the impression that the b-coes were not quite as good in overall driveability. Maybe just need the tunes tweaked. Anyone live tuning near MN???

JDub · Jul 28, 2011

dzldoctor said:
I was under the impression that the b-coes were not quite as good in overall driveability. Maybe just need the tunes tweaked. Anyone live tuning near MN???

Have you got an aftermarket oil system on the truck? I would think you've got plenty of injector for 600hp, just need the oil and air to support it.

CSIPSD · Jul 28, 2011

JDub said:
I ran both hybrids and B-codes in my 2002 truck. I preferred the idle quality, EGT control and overall driveability with the b-codes, they made better power on the dyno too. Mine were just stock b-codes with an .008 extrude honed nozzle, not sure what that equates to in %.

I've heard your tuner say several times he does not like tuning for hybrids...

90% of the people out there these days are running a hybrid or stroked A code.

JDub · Jul 28, 2011

CSIPSD said:
I've heard your tuner say several times he does not like tuning for hybrids...

90% of the people out there these days are running a hybrid or stroked A code.

I've used multiple tuners, so I'm not sure what your previous statement means.

And yes, most people are running Hybrids now. But me personally, I'll take a stroked A-code or stock 530 B-code over a hybrid for a street truck everytime.

Hotrodtractor · Jul 28, 2011

dzldoctor said:
I was under the impression that the b-coes were not quite as good in overall driveability. Maybe just need the tunes tweaked. Anyone live tuning near MN???

Say what? That is utter internet nonsense. Look at it in these simple terms - a stock injector runs a 7:1 injection ratio - a B-code runs a 6:1 injection ratio - an A-code runs a 5:1 injection ratio. If you put the same tip onto all of them - the A - code will always fuel the hardest at low ICP levels and the Hybrid will fuel the hardest at high ICP levels - the B-code falls squarely in the middle. Granted - not many guys are running around with A-codes with 200% tips - which might be a small part of the issues you are experiencing - the larger the injection tip - the less resistance at the tip - the higher the flow rate - as the flow rate increases the pressure drop for the high pressure oil flowing across the injector poppet increases. This is why you can have the three injectors listed above - all running say 3K psi - and the hybrid (the one with the lowest injection ratio) will actually have the higher injection pressure at the tip. This has been proven on the bench time and time again - and I am actually gathering info to do a nice write up about this exact phenomenon right now to further explain its implications and consequences with pretty graphs and pictures.

CSIPSD · Jul 28, 2011

JDub said:
I've used multiple tuners, so I'm not sure what your previous statement means.

And yes, most people are running Hybrids now. But me personally, I'll take a stroked A-code or stock 530 B-code over a hybrid for a street truck everytime.

The only tuner I have ever seen you post about is DP, so I guess the assumption that your tuning issues were based on that is wrong...

Hotrodtractor · Jul 28, 2011

JDub said:
I've used multiple tuners, so I'm not sure what your previous statement means.

And yes, most people are running Hybrids now. But me personally, I'll take a stroked A-code or stock 530 B-code over a hybrid for a street truck everytime.

What is it about the hybrid that you don't care for in a street truck?

JDub · Jul 28, 2011

Hotrodtractor said:
What is it about the hybrid that you don't care for in a street truck?

I guess it's just personal preference from the different injectors I've ran in my personal trucks over the years. My 2002 truck idled smoother, smoked less, and got better mileage with the b-codes compared to the Mini Me's. And my early 99 truck idled smoother, smoked less, and made the same power with 200cc Hypermax A-codes compared to the 238cc Hybrid. Both trucks had complete fuel systems, enough turbo, and Terminator oil.

Everyone has their own opinion and preference, I just didn't like the way the Hybrids ran in either of my trucks. The hybrids made good power, don't get me wrong, just preferred the others.

dzldoctor · Jul 28, 2011

Is the drop in stealth enough for the injectors? I Was told it should support my 235cc bcodes. No guarantee, but should be adequate. The 66mm H2e not enough air?? I have plenty of low pressure fuel, complete reg return with the walbro in cab gauge, never drops below 58psi. Don't get ,me wrong the truck runs good, its just the small things I have noticed over time. Your saying the injectors should support 600hp?

Strokersace · Jul 28, 2011

I thought stock b-codes were more like 248-250cc's stock?

Cota · Jul 29, 2011

Is big oil still required to run B codes?

strokin'_tatsch · Jul 29, 2011

dzldoctor said:
Is the drop in stealth enough for the injectors? I Was told it should support my 235cc bcodes. No guarantee, but should be adequate.

There is only one way to figure this out.. Put a scanner on it and watch ICP and IPR DC% while driving. If it drops ICP, you know it's not enough HPO. If IPR DC% starts getting up to 50+%, but doesn't drop pressure, your on the line of needing big oil. Ideal conditions would be for it to hold around 3000psi ICP and IPR % stays under ~50%.