Blue smoke on cold start...

[OBS-Addiction97]

Every issue you are describing is exactly what is happening with my dads truck with gearhead tunes and full force stage 1 injectors. He is so sick of it he called me today and is ready to go back to stock. His workers were in it the other day with high idle on and then when they drove away it poured white smoke. Always smokes like crazy on start up and has a rough idle. All injectors tested good, fuel pressure is good, compression is good, new swamps IDM etc etc!

I'm just throwing this out there, my truck never smoked white with my PIS injectors. As soon as I got FF injectors it smokes white like a train when cold if the temp is below 50ish. If the temp is above that I don't get much white smoke.

 

[maplemale]

I'm just throwing this out there, my truck never smoked white with my PIS injectors. As soon as I got FF injectors it smokes white like a train when cold if the temp is below 50ish. If the temp is above that I don't get much white smoke.

Looks like from your signature you've got way bigger than stage 1s? Are those hybrids? Do you have a more stock tune they don't smoke on? Or, smokes the same on all tunes? Also, wondering if you have the wet stacking issue when in town / dinking around. Not that it's really an issue per-say.


FYI: My fuel pressure is good. Pretty study at 65. I also pulled the valve covers and re-torqued (was all spec) and then gave it another 1/4 turn or so just because. Someone asked me what my HPOP cranking PSI was. I haven't been able to tell. Unless it's really cold out, the truck normally fires up so fast (except that one time it didn't), that you can't really see the PSI for the 1 second of cranking. I guess with all of this, I'm thinking the no-start issue last week must be unrelated. Maybe I had a frozen fuel line? Maybe I need new batteries. Guess I'll find out for sure this week when I take her to MT for vacation.



I want to go to the Riff Raff Event in Tennessee this year just so I can pick brains and listen to other trucks with the same mods and maybe figure this out. Or, maybe come to the conclusion that it's 100% normal / ok to have a way rougher cold idle and lots of smoke even with just stage 1s. :shrug:


mandkole,
Thanks for the pdf. That's actually really informative. Just makes me want to pull the injectors again and verify no signs of having broken ones (carbon build up etc).

 

[cbf9703]

I want to go to the Riff Raff Event in Tennessee this year just so I can pick brains and listen to other trucks with the same mods and maybe figure this out. Or, maybe come to the conclusion that it's 100% normal / ok to have a way rougher cold idle and lots of smoke even with just stage 1s. :shrug:

RiffRaff is a neat little event, but seems a little far from CO. Have you thought about making the trip to KY for TS instead and talking to the guys there? It's a bigger event and all the TN guys usually make it up. Plus it's only an hour or 2 drive to Swamps or FF.

Back on topic, earlier in the thread you described "As the temps get colder, it's getting to a point where my neighbors are getting pissed. I fill three or four yards with the white/grey/blue-ish smoke in the morning." And if it's getting worse with the lower temps, that's excessive for stage 1s. I don't plug my trucks in and even in the teens, I don't have that much smoke with stage 1s or 2s. When I had GPs out in one I got close to that after a cold start with ether one morning, but there's no reason for stage 1s to fill multiple neighbor yards every morning. I'm sure some guys live with it, but why?

Update: Well... I've pretty much been ignoring this. Though at about 35 - 40 degrees the smoke is about 5 times worse than my video. But, now two days ago at about 30 degrees (had been down in the 10s that night), she won't start. Tried to start her 4 times. No go. Lots of white smoke the last time and one romp then dies. I gave up for fear I was going to hurt something.

:wtf:

The oil has less than 1k miles on it (DELO 400 15w40). The fuel filter has about 5k miles. New GPCM. New GPs. I'm insanely busy right now and didn't have time to omh out the GPs at the harness. So, I bit the bullet and am paying a local shop to do it. Still waiting to hear back, should know tomorrow. Maybe it's VCHs? No idea...

Two more thoughts and possible clues or possibly nothing:

1: I do get what seems like wet stacking when in town. That just part of having slightly bigger injectors or maybe point to tuning issues? Basically, when I'm just driving around easy up to about 40 mph with no hard take offs (RPMs always below 2k) I notice no smoke or anything. But, the first time I take off like a bat out of h3ll, it will fill a 4 lane road with grey smoke for the first 200 feet. Then, clears up and wont' do it again unless i'm idling a lot in between take-offs. It's very much like I'm building up excess fuel from idling and then burning it all up at about 2800 RPMs.

2: Check out my emissions results from before Stage 1s and after Stage 1s. Should they be this much worse?
http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/f24/emissions-testing-denver-482650/

Going from 5% at 40MPH to 21%? All of this was in Matt's economy tune. Is that expected with stage 1s and this type of tuning, or maybe this is point to possible clues? Maybe all this is tuning. Seems like a huge opacity increase for just stage 1s.

Seems like a large increase, the jump at 60 is more in line with what I'd expect. We only have curb idle opacity on diesels through 01, 02+ is OBD so either way I've never seen the 'official' numbers to show the increase on any of mine. I've never had the wet stacking issue you describe either with any of the injector or tuning (canned or live) combos I've run. Did you hear anything back from the local shop you brought it to?

 

[maplemale]

Did you hear anything back from the local shop you brought it to?

Ya... they omh'd everything out and tested voltage out the GPCM and said all was normal. They cleaned the battery connections, said maybe I need new batteries and thought maybe the dirty terminals were causing an issue. They had no trouble starting it though at about 20 degrees. They thought it sounded normal too. I'm not sure I trust their opinion as a lot of 7.3 owners have rough idles and just think it's normal when it isn't. I grew up around 7.3s and it doesn't sound normal to me especially when cold and below 800 RPMs.


Half the reason I had them test it was because I got a p0381 a few days prior. I saw it on the Torque app, but when I went to pull all codes a few days later with AutoEnginuity, it was gone. That's odd... cause I'm quit positive I did not clear that code in Torque. Unless Torque clears it automatically or is just buggy or something.


I've always thought the truck was acting very much like glow plugs weren't working right. The GPs are new as is the GPCM. Only thing I didn't replace was the UVCH(s). Maybe I should just replace them anyway. Screw it... I think I will do that just to eliminate the possibility. Would rather put the money towards new up-pipes. Oh well... :cursing:

 

[lincolnlocker]

Ya... they omh'd everything out and tested voltage out the GPCM and said all was normal. They cleaned the battery connections, said maybe I need new batteries and thought maybe the dirty terminals were causing an issue. They had no trouble starting it though at about 20 degrees. They thought it sounded normal too. I'm not sure I trust their opinion as a lot of 7.3 owners have rough idles and just think it's normal when it isn't. I grew up around 7.3s and it doesn't sound normal to me especially when cold and below 800 RPMs.


Half the reason I had them test it was because I got a p0381 a few days prior. I saw it on the Torque app, but when I went to pull all codes a few days later with AutoEnginuity, it was gone. That's odd... cause I'm quit positive I did not clear that code in Torque. Unless Torque clears it automatically or is just buggy or something.


I've always thought the truck was acting very much like glow plugs weren't working right. The GPs are new as is the GPCM. Only thing I didn't replace was the UVCH(s). Maybe I should just replace them anyway. Screw it... I think I will do that just to eliminate the possibility. Would rather put the money towards new up-pipes. Oh well... :cursing:

did they say how much of a drop it was from the always hot post of the gpr to the other side of the relay that is connected to the gp's? anything more then a .25v drop and it is junk. yes that reads 1/4 of a volt... most people put a test light on it and say "oh its good" it has power... not in this case.

live life full throttle

 

[lincolnlocker]

brand new gpr can be bad out of the box so i would double check that..

live life full throttle

 

[superduty4x4]

firehunter, glad to see you're still around and glad I noticed this thread! My truck (5 speed OBS with Stage 1's) is very smoky on cold starts and smells of fuel, basically what you described with your truck to a T. I suppose I should ohm out the GP's and check the torque on the injectors and go from there. Has the tuning from Matt helped out much? (sorry if this was stated, I started skimming things toward the end here)

 

[greenman01]

Update: Well... I've pretty much been ignoring this. Though at about 35 - 40 degrees the smoke is about 5 times worse than my video. But, now two days ago at about 30 degrees (had been down in the 10s that night), she won't start. Tried to start her 4 times. No go. Lots of white smoke the last time and one romp then dies. I gave up for fear I was going to hurt something.

:wtf:

The oil has less than 1k miles on it (DELO 400 15w40). The fuel filter has about 5k miles. New GPCM. New GPs. I'm insanely busy right now and didn't have time to omh out the GPs at the harness. So, I bit the bullet and am paying a local shop to do it. Still waiting to hear back, should know tomorrow. Maybe it's VCHs? No idea...

Two more thoughts and possible clues or possibly nothing:

1: I do get what seems like wet stacking when in town. That just part of having slightly bigger injectors or maybe point to tuning issues? Basically, when I'm just driving around easy up to about 40 mph with no hard take offs (RPMs always below 2k) I notice no smoke or anything. But, the first time I take off like a bat out of h3ll, it will fill a 4 lane road with grey smoke for the first 200 feet. Then, clears up and wont' do it again unless i'm idling a lot in between take-offs. It's very much like I'm building up excess fuel from idling and then burning it all up at about 2800 RPMs.

2: Check out my emissions results from before Stage 1s and after Stage 1s. Should they be this much worse?
http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/f24/emissions-testing-denver-482650/

Going from 5% at 40MPH to 21%? All of this was in Matt's economy tune. Is that expected with stage 1s and this type of tuning, or maybe this is point to possible clues? Maybe all this is tuning. Seems like a huge opacity increase for just stage 1s.

I smoke out the neighborhood in the winter with the truck in my sig. I had a no start in the economy tune a few weeks ago at around 30. It would just romp a few times and die. I tried to start it in the street tune and it flashed right up. Also using 15-40.

 

[cbf9703]

I've always thought the truck was acting very much like glow plugs weren't working right. The GPs are new as is the GPCM. Only thing I didn't replace was the UVCH(s). Maybe I should just replace them anyway. Screw it... I think I will do that just to eliminate the possibility. Would rather put the money towards new up-pipes. Oh well... :cursing:

Any update?

 

[Layson]

I thought something similar was going on with my truck. Every time I started it up when it was cold I would get some smoke. I kept attributing it to the glow plugs or something going on with the injectors. Used to never do this. Well I just happened to take the turbo off to put on a billet wheel and when I took the compressor housing off I could see a little oil residue in the turbo. Turned out the seal in the turbo was slightly leaking.

So you would start it up and it would smoke for a few minutes then it would go away. As it got warmer the seal in the turbo closed back up and it wouldn't smoke. When it was warm it wouldn't do it. It was a little weird.

 

[firehunter]

firehunter, glad to see you're still around and glad I noticed this thread! My truck (5 speed OBS with Stage 1's) is very smoky on cold starts and smells of fuel, basically what you described with your truck to a T. I suppose I should ohm out the GP's and check the torque on the injectors and go from there. Has the tuning from Matt helped out much? (sorry if this was stated, I started skimming things toward the end here)

Yep, still around. Still smoking, basically nothing has changed despite a steady stream of parts swapping. Latest addition to the truck is a Stancor GPR so I KNOW the GP's are working now. It was intermittent before, not now. It started last week at 0* ambient just on the GP's, it will start, just cant see anything around the truck for a while. It idled up to 1500 rpm all on it's own as well, hadn't seen that one, I guess it was from 0* 15-40 oil because once it is warm it is butter smooth and all good.

I never got anywhere with tuning changes so I gave up on that angle. No complaints, Matt put some time in on it and I don't feel right bugging him anymore. I just keep replacing parts, when they are needed, hoping that maybe one of them will be the red pill but no luck so far. :fustrate:

 

[powerstroker888]

I have had similar issues with my truck has 160/80 injectors in it. I also have gearhead tuning on my truck. Some emails back and forth and Matt sending me a revised tune. Cleaned it up just like that!! Hardly any smoke at cold startup and idles super nice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[superduty4x4]

Yep, still around. Still smoking, basically nothing has changed despite a steady stream of parts swapping. Latest addition to the truck is a Stancor GPR so I KNOW the GP's are working now. It was intermittent before, not now. It started last week at 0* ambient just on the GP's, it will start, just cant see anything around the truck for a while. It idled up to 1500 rpm all on it's own as well, hadn't seen that one, I guess it was from 0* 15-40 oil because once it is warm it is butter smooth and all good.

I never got anywhere with tuning changes so I gave up on that angle. No complaints, Matt put some time in on it and I don't feel right bugging him anymore. I just keep replacing parts, when they are needed, hoping that maybe one of them will be the red pill but no luck so far. :fustrate:

Have you looked into a turbo issue like Layson described? I'm was thinking that may be part of my problem, never have seen any oil in the down pipe the couple times I've had it off but it's possible I'm getting oil in there and it's burning off (hard to say though since my CCV is still stock). Someday I'll get around to installing my S366 and maybe that will solve the issue...

 

[lincolnlocker]

just a fyi guys.. until your oil temps are above 140° - 160° its prolly gonna smoke when its below freezing outside.. regardless of what you try...... my 6.7 smokes on startup too...

live life full throttle

 

[superduty4x4]

just a fyi guys.. until your oil temps are above 140° - 160° its prolly gonna smoke when its below freezing outside.. regardless of what you try...... my 6.7 smokes on startup too...

live life full throttle

Understood that a little smoke is normal and expected but when it's chugging massive clouds of smoke out that's a different matter.

 

[lincolnlocker]

Understood that a little smoke is normal and expected but when it's chugging massive clouds of smoke out that's a different matter.

my dually has since the tunes and injectors where put in back in 2010.. if i park next to a snow bank it will turn it black.. my 6.7 does it now too..

live life full throttle

 

[maplemale]

brand new gpr can be bad out of the box so i would double check that..

Busy holiday season. Sorry for lack of response. I have not tried what you stated yet, but will do so soon. Had other issues to fix recently... the battery light started flickering on the way back from MT and discovered 2 issues:

1. The bottom of the drivers side of the positive battery terminal had cracked in half/corroded.
2. There were frayed wires coming off my alternator charger cable. And an old repair of that connection was done badly.

Fixed those issues and the battery light no longer flickers. I'm pretty certain this was the main reason for the no-cold-start that one day. I don't think I was getting full juice from the second battery. Fixing this certainly did nothing for the smoke issue - she still smokes like a chimney when warming up at 30 degrees. I'll check more into the GPCM. Wish I could ditch the thing for a relay. But, I suppose it wouldn't pass inspection anymore.


Also, I have to state this again: Regardless of what amount of smoke others have, neither me or firehunter had smoke at all when warming up before stage 1s and custom tunes. I get that it can be "normal", but it seems not normal in this case. And another thing worth noting... when I run straight kerosene with a lubricant (2 cycle mix), it never smokes at all, even down to 0 degrees without being plugged in. Though it smells like a tiki torch! I've been doing this lately so I don't irritate my neighbors. I get a limited supply of cheap kerosene now and then which I've been saving for winter.

 

[mandkole]

A good running, small nozzle injector with correct tuning wont smoke at idle. The link on post #99 will be my guide from here on out... so much good information in there and it explains much about most of the reman injectors that Ive come in contact with.

 

[maplemale]

A good running, small nozzle injector with correct tuning wont smoke at idle. The link on post #99 will be my guide from here on out... so much good information in there and it explains much about most of the reman injectors that Ive come in contact with.

That is indeed a great resource! After reading it a while back, I had called and asked Unlimited Diesel if it was possible there were bad poppet valves as the symptoms seem to fit. But, it seemed unlikely since it's every injector and not just one. Regardless, I'm to the point I may try different injectors.


I just called gearhead a few minutes ago. Talked to Larz again and told him where I'm at. He's sending me a tester tune which I'll install first. I'll try another ice cold start hopefully Thur. morning when it's supposed to be 15 degrees out. Last ditch effort on tuning before I go completely crazy and pull injectors to inspect them / have them tested / switched out etc.


Ya know... another thing which I just told Larz. It seems like my HPOP is running slightly lower on pressure by about 100-200 psi with these injectors vs. stock. At idle, I'm at 475 psi and WOT is usually around 2900. Used to be more like 550 psi and 3100. Though, admittedly WOT is harder to test now with all the upgrades since I end at about 100 MPH! imp:


But shouldn't I get higher HPOP numbers if anything since single shots are more efficient?

 

[golfer]

Ya know... another thing which I just told Larz. It seems like my HPOP is running slightly lower on pressure by about 100-200 psi with these injectors vs. stock. At idle, I'm at 475 psi and WOT is usually around 2900. Used to be more like 550 psi and 3100. Though, admittedly WOT is harder to test now with all the upgrades since I end at about 100 MPH! imp:


But shouldn't I get higher HPOP numbers if anything since single shots are more efficient?

ICP pressure at idle (and annny condition other than max injector duration) is going to be a function of tuning, much more than the injectors.

basically...if the injector isn't going 'full stroke'...then the PCM is controlling the ICP pressure.

it's only when the injectors' oil usage exceeds the HPOPump's volume output that the injectors will determine HPOP pressure.