Construction and Gains of Ported Intake Manifolds

[DBQLSC]

FYI cast aluminum isnt all that strong, the marine, extreme grade epoxy used by matt is actually stronger than the cast aluminum manifold in it itself. So if the cast aluminum and the epoxy cracked, WTF did whomever was delivering the manifold do to it?

Its crazy to see how many people really care this deep into something. No this epoxy if used right, will NOT crack off from the heat and crumble into the engine, nor will it lose is shape/mold. Ive seen aluminum welds break too, so I wouldn't be all gung-ho about being quick to blame epoxy. Matt knows what he's doing and its a shame to see people who have no clue what is really going on put his name under the bus. These things are barely released

Needless to say, I like the idea of the thread, but honestly I dont see it going anywhere but another pissing match between manifold makers. If I'm wrong please delete my post, but I would like to be proved wrong.

Agreed. I have a porting background and after talking with Matt, the guy really does know what he is talking about and what he is doing.

 

[FaSSt9602]

****, they use epoxy to repair cracks in bridges for crying out loud...use it to sink lags into concrete to support tons and tons of weight...epoxy will chew up and spit out our measly manifold!

All epoxy manifold FTW! LOL

 

[TooMuch03]

I'll just quickly restate soem of what I said in the other thread. I have a friend who repaired a crack in his engine block with jb weld, and it has held up for well over 100k miles until the the tranny went out and he junked the car. The jb weld was subjected to much greater heat and stress than our aluminum manifold is. And, it sounds like the epoxy Matt uses is much higher quality than simple jb weld. I am not worried. Since the soot Powered manifold has actually been flow benched and numbers are out there, 340 cfm I believe, and none of the others besides GOGO have any such info, I think the use of epoxy is a non-issue simply brought up in an attempt to discredit an obviously superior performance product. JMO

 

[little luke]

Hmm I have one manifold I just finished porting that I am going to tig. I have a second one on the way. May study and try using epoxy on the next one

 

[Crack85]

Hmm I have one manifold I just finished porting that I am going to tig. I have a second one on the way. May study and try using epoxy on the next one

is it a DIY??

 

[colo_dually]

We have a good discussion here so far.

I'm also interested of course in the DIY manifolds, make this thread all inclusive.

 

[SootPowered]

I'm not sure how much I can say in this thread without being banned. I've had my hand slapped a couple times and really don't want to get banned. I can understand the concern for the other vendors here because I'm not a paying sponsor; however, my manifolds are sold by two vendors here.

I have said in a prior thread that I will submit my manifolds to a third party for a flow bench shoot out between whoever will send in a manifold for testing. I'm not scared I know exactly what mine flow.

As to the post in the Holderdown vendor section I'm scared to reply because I don't want to be banned. I will be the first to admit I haven't turned around 6.4 intakes like I would like to have done. For that and to the customers I let down in the process I am sincerely sorry. The reason being that I don't have a CNC machine, and I can't really expect the guy doing the machining to stop a 300k order to machine a manifold for me for $550. When I built the protype 6.4 manifolds I had a 10 day turn around time and I was told that's what I can expect. Needless to say he hasn't held up his end of the deal in turn causing me to "lie" to my customers in a sense.

As far as the cracked manifolds go I have pics and will post if necessary. Both manifolds were cracked-correct, but the aluminum legs of both manifolds were also cracked where the epoxy was.

Hope this helps clear up some of the air on these things.

Garrett please don't ban me man!

 

[little luke]

is it a DIY??

Yes sir

 

[PTSUPERD]

Garrett please don't ban me man!

LOL. Post is fine man.

 

[colo_dually]

I'm not sure how much I can say in this thread without being banned. I've had my hand slapped a couple times and really don't want to get banned. I can understand the concern for the other vendors here because I'm not a paying sponsor; however, my manifolds are sold by two vendors here.

I have said in a prior thread that I will submit my manifolds to a third party for a flow bench shoot out between whoever will send in a manifold for testing. I'm not scared I know exactly what mine flow.

As to the post in the Holderdown vendor section I'm scared to reply because I don't want to be banned. I will be the first to admit I haven't turned around 6.4 intakes like I would like to have done. For that and to the customers I let down in the process I am sincerely sorry. The reason being that I don't have a CNC machine, and I can't really expect the guy doing the machining to stop a 300k order to machine a manifold for me for $550. When I built the protype 6.4 manifolds I had a 10 day turn around time and I was told that's what I can expect. Needless to say he hasn't held up his end of the deal in turn causing me to "lie" to my customers in a sense.

As far as the cracked manifolds go I have pics and will post if necessary. Both manifolds were cracked-correct, but the aluminum legs of both manifolds were also cracked where the epoxy was.

Hope this helps clear up some of the air on these things.

Garrett please don't ban me man!

Soot Powered, if anything I would like to know specifically weather your manifolds on the 6.0L are welded back or epoxied together? Feel free to PM me, if you prefer.

We've taken this to the 6.0L Aftermarket section, for the purpose of being able to discuss this openly. If any vendor has an issue with it, again PM me. I'm asking for the information as a prospective customer.

No one should feel they're going to be banned for posting here. If I am incorrect in that assessment, the Mods can PM me.

 

[SootPowered]

Soot Powered, if anything I would like to know specifically weather your manifolds on the 6.0L are welded back or epoxied together? Feel free to PM me, if you prefer.

We've taken this to the 6.0L Aftermarket section, for the purpose of being able to discuss this openly. If any vendor has an issue with it, again PM me. I'm asking for the information as a prospective customer.

No one should feel they're going to be banned for posting here. If I am incorrect in that assessment, the Mods can PM me.

I epoxy the manifolds back together. I do this because to achieve the high CFM gains you have to epoxy the inside of the intakes in places. If you epoxy the inside there is not way to mechanically join the two intakes peices back to gather because when you weld aluminium it distorts do to the high temps of the tig process. When the aluminium distorts the epoxy pulls away from the manifold causing a weak link in the epoxy.

 

[colo_dually]

I epoxy the manifolds back together. I do this because to achieve the high CFM gains you have to epoxy the inside of the intakes in places. If you epoxy the inside there is not way to mechanically join the two intakes peices back to gather because when you weld aluminium it distorts do to the high temps of the tig process. When the aluminium distorts the epoxy pulls away from the manifold causing a weak link in the epoxy.

Thanks for your explanation. I appreciate it.

 

[SootPowered]

I epoxy the manifolds back together. I do this because to achieve the high CFM gains you have to epoxy the inside of the intakes in places. If you epoxy the inside there is not way to mechanically join the two intakes peices back to gather because when you weld aluminium it distorts do to the high temps of the tig process. When the aluminium distorts the epoxy pulls away from the manifold causing a weak link in the epoxy.

Let me add that the stage 3 High Velocity manifolds can be welded if someone wants to drop 3k on a manifold. I did an all welded HV manifold one time as a proto type. I had about 70 hours in that one manifold.

Forgot to add the the epoxy is far stronger then the aluminium.

 

[Arctic Fox]

After the manifold is bolted to the heads, the intake bolts are also holding the manifold together.

 

[colo_dually]

Let me add that the stage 3 High Velocity manifolds can be welded if someone wants to drop 3k on a manifold. I did an all welded HV manifold one time as a proto type. I had about 70 hours in that one manifold.

Forgot to add the the epoxy is far stronger then the aluminium.

That's a lot more man hours than I had estimated. Good piece of data.

 

[Pizza pig]

wouldn't matter anyway, the amount of torque required to properly seal the intake manifold is no where near enough force to disturb the epoxy.

 

[HOOV3R]

Let me add that the stage 3 High Velocity manifolds can be welded if someone wants to drop 3k on a manifold. I did an all welded HV manifold one time as a proto type. I had about 70 hours in that one manifold.

Forgot to add the the epoxy is far stronger then the aluminium.

Its nice to actually get some explanations about your manifolds. Thanks for clearing up everyone's issues. I've got my spare manifold sitting in the hot tank now, and you'll more than likely going to be seeing it eventually. The fact that your not afraid to reveal some of what goes into your product is what attracts so many people to it, at least it does for me.

 

[Arctic Fox]

wouldn't matter anyway, the amount of torque required to properly seal the intake manifold is no where near enough force to disturb the epoxy.

I didn't mean that bolting it to the heads would cause the epoxy to fail, I meant it would help to hold it together, but also I'm not saying it needs the bolts to hold it together.

 

[Arctic Fox]

Its nice to actually get some explanations about your manifolds. The fact that your not afraid to reveal some of what goes into your product is what attracts so many people to it, at least it does for me.

I agree, I need to see and know something about a product before I will buy it.

 

[SootPowered]

I didn't mean that bolting it to the heads would cause the epoxy to fail, I meant it would help to hold it together, but also I'm not saying it needs the bolts to hold it together.

The bolts going through a intake are only good for +/- 12 CFM or so. Meaning you only gain 12 more CFM by not having the bolts go through the intake. To me, the 12 CFM gain is not enough for me to justify possibly loosing one of those little 6mm cap head screws down a intake runner. Again this is just my personal preferance and revelations from my flow bench testing.