Please explain what "more internal work" is. This isn't a flame or a call out. But I think this thread was on the right track: manifold X offers this whereas manifold Y offers that. What are the differences? What gains are there? Doug's info is out and public, but the only information I've been able to gain from a lot of other vendors is vague enough to make me question it.
Construction and Gains of Ported Intake Manifolds
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Not at all man, go look in the holderdown vendor section, the thread in there shows the throat/neck work, its very cool, theres a lot of good info in there as well.
No knock on doug, his manifold is great. But that right there is one of the few contributors to better flow/velocity.
No knock on doug, his manifold is great. But that right there is one of the few contributors to better flow/velocity.
Just read the whole thread (again), and still don't think I can agree with the information being presented. The mounting bolts go through the plenum and this thing still outflows a ported manifold with no obstructions by 100cfm?
Sorry, but I'm having a hard time believing that. And until someone takes the time to do a side by side by side by side comparison between these four, I don't think the average Joe will know what to believe. Two don't even have flow numbers. Just my $.02, and I'll leave it there.
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Sorry, but I'm having a hard time believing that. And until someone takes the time to do a side by side by side by side comparison between these four, I don't think the average Joe will know what to believe. Two don't even have flow numbers. Just my $.02, and I'll leave it there.
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what a mess
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and another question to ask is how much cfm velocity can the manifolds flow before heads become the restriction? like i have a manifold that flows 500 cfm but the heads can only flow 400???? so waht can heads flow and whats the magic number for cfm outa the intake so the heads are running at full potential?
Redneck6.0L
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all these ported manifolds out flow the heads
Redneck6.0L
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as for the bolts going therough them and a manifold which doesn't, side by side comparision isnt going to show any difference. these are boosted motors, as long as the major restrictions are removed, your ahead of the game
beware which vendor makes you wait a yr for it after you've paid your money compared to other vendors here who actually deliver in a timely fasion
beware which vendor makes you wait a yr for it after you've paid your money compared to other vendors here who actually deliver in a timely fasion
alwil
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I think thats why more people dont buy them.....would you buy something at that cost when you cant see numbers or the product before you send your money?
colo_dually
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The big issue here, is what is being done inside each of the runners that isn't being presented. Some vendors simply port the manifold out and open it up, others do some internal work and drive up the air velocitys (not sure how). Until the internals completely come to public knowledge, no one is going to have the answer.
As for the bolts, it was tested the bolts only contribute to a 12CFM difference in airflow. Non-issue when compared to the heads limitations.
This is the whole point of this thread.
1) Get to know what is available on the market.
2) Have the numbers presented.
3) Get to understand the differences.
4) (If Possible) Unmask some of these trade secrets.
You already know I value and respect your opinions and insight. Something I've wondered about: where did that 12 cfm number come from? It's either from the maker of a manifold who's numbers I question, or someone who's posted no numbers at all.
On a related note, it also seems that other companies are having trouble delivering.their products. I'm not trying to turn this into a witch hunt, but I'm honestly tired of the "this one is better because I read it on the internet" mentality.
IMO, its going to boil down to who can deliver the product. Especially if all of these are already outflowing the heads. I don't really question that either, but its yet another thing that maybe one or two people have stated and has become gospel. I don't think I've seen solid numbers to back this up. Not saying it isn't the case because there are quite a few folks who have been deep into the 6.0, but its simply something I haven't seen backed up with hard data.
This is a great thread BTW. Very interested to see how all this unfolds.
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On a related note, it also seems that other companies are having trouble delivering.their products. I'm not trying to turn this into a witch hunt, but I'm honestly tired of the "this one is better because I read it on the internet" mentality.
IMO, its going to boil down to who can deliver the product. Especially if all of these are already outflowing the heads. I don't really question that either, but its yet another thing that maybe one or two people have stated and has become gospel. I don't think I've seen solid numbers to back this up. Not saying it isn't the case because there are quite a few folks who have been deep into the 6.0, but its simply something I haven't seen backed up with hard data.
This is a great thread BTW. Very interested to see how all this unfolds.
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SootPowered
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What would it take to put your mind at ease sir?
I'm right there with what you proposed at one point: a no holds barred, winner takes all manifold shootout. And I think it speaks volumes about the confidence you have in your product that you're willing to throw down the gauntlet.
windrunner408
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This is kind of my question too. However, I fully understand not wanting to accept things hook, line, and sinker either. I guess if you're looking for info from more than one source, then that is fine but let's not say the info that one guy is providing as being false. JMO I guess.
I just think people sometimes get too wrapped around the axle with specific numbers. For me the bottomline is does this thing make more power or not?? Does it give better throttle response?? Does it lower EGTs?? How much does it cost compared to the other options??
I don't know. To each their own I guess.
PTSUPERD
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Just a couple pics of my Apex for reference. Wish my truck ran for data..
Next to my stage one:
Pic doesnt pick it up but there is definately more material removed from the Apex neck.
Next to my stage one:
Pic doesnt pick it up but there is definately more material removed from the Apex neck.
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Just a couple pics of my Apex for reference. Wish my truck ran for data..
Next to my stage one:
Pic doesnt pick it up but there is definately more material removed from the Apex neck.
You see that area at the bottom of the intake in the second to last pic where Doug machines the bottoms flat. That impedes airflow. The air now has to fight to make it out of the manifold.
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I'm still in.
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Sorry man I didn't realize that. That's how much attention I pay to everyone else's designes.
Arctic Fox
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I have the GoGo manifold on my truck and I think it has reduced the EGT's and does help the Powermax to spool faster, but because I installed both at the same time it makes it hard to know which one made what change.
For the following statement, let me say I have no experience or expertise with porting, this is just an observation and my way of thinking.
As for the inside of the GoGo manifold... yes it's completely milled out on the inside, but that doesn't mean it will have the most flow. It has a lot of milled out square corners and edges that probably don't help the flow, and might even be creating dead spots and turbulence that could reduce flow. Maybe filling in and blending some of the corners and edges with epoxy or welding and filling those areas with aluminum which would make the overall internal volume of the manifold smaller would actually help increase the flow?
EDIT - while I was composing this post there were about 6 new posts added to the thread... guess I'm a slow thinker and slow at typing
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smooth round edges are what airflow likes. this is why velocity stacks are oh so common on race vehicles, because it helps the charge literally SUCK in air. Ever stand in front of one on a big charger?
This is the same concept, on the intake runners, smooth velocity stack style machine work will flow better when compared to a straight edge like Matt pointed out.
This is the same concept, on the intake runners, smooth velocity stack style machine work will flow better when compared to a straight edge like Matt pointed out.
