DD clutch for a ZF6 What do you all use?

[jaybuller]

hhahah I really doubt there is a clutch out there that is going to do what you are asking. and I can just about guarrentee Chuck is going to tell you the clutch you need is a PI stallion :lame:

 

[Powerstroke Cowboy]

I have to agree with what Charles posted.

I think your asking for a lot out of a clutch ... Smooth Engagement, resonable shift speed, high rpm launches ...

At 4000 rpm your going to want an SFI approved clutch which is going to limit your choices.

Sintered Iron would be smother then a Ceramic would it not? I dont care as much about the engagement as the noise of the clutch. I just done want a pedal that is "on" or "off" I would like it to be able to slip a little.


I would just go with a better single disk clutch then the one I have now. But for the fact I want to hook to a sled a couple times a year, I dont think that will work.

Single would never work unless you took of like normal and tried to shift as you went. But that would be a waste of time!

 

[Powerstroke Cowboy]

hhahah I really doubt there is a clutch out there that is going to do what you are asking. and I can just about guarrentee Chuck is going to tell you the clutch Pack you need is a PI stallion :lame:

Fixed it for you!!


OK let me change this out. I could care less right now about drag racing. We have nothing like that up here. Just a clutch that will work for DD and towing
with a couple hooks to a sled a year.


Forget about the drag racing. If I get great.. if not, no big deal!

Will that make it a little better?

 

[Powerstroke Cowboy]

Here is the clutch I have now... Engagement is nice and smooth...

13" x 1.375" Performance Replacement
Ceramic / Kevlar Buttons (both sides of disc shown)
HD Spring Hub
Rated @ 500HP / 1000 ft lbs Torque
3400# Pressure Plate

They have one that is rated for 600hp 1100FTLB But would not work for sled pulling.

 

[strokin'_tatsch]

Here is the clutch I have now... Engagement is nice and smooth...

13" x 1.375" Performance Replacement
Ceramic / Kevlar Buttons (both sides of disc shown)
HD Spring Hub
Rated @ 500HP / 1000 ft lbs Torque
3400# Pressure Plate

They have one that is rated for 600hp 1100FTLB But would not work for sled pulling.

Give the sintered iron dual disc a shot. I've driven a pulling truck with one in it and it is smoother than my ceramic is.

 

[lincolnlocker]

Since the OP isn't planning on building a trailer queen sled puller, I feel like someone should mention that a clutch that will hold ACTUAL power in the ranges being thrown around describing these clutch ratings will drive like fresh dog sh*t smells on a hot summer day.

9.8 times out of 10 a guy driving a dual disc on the street that says it has great shifting and driving manners makes NO POWER. How many responses in this thread were STOCK injectors? LOL How many of the others have pulled even 500 to the ground on a legit dyno?


.

the first paragraph sounds like mine lol...

the second paragraph.... are you saying mine will get better as i go up in power or worse?

i hope it gets better. i have to have the rpms right and not push the pedal very far or it wont slide into gear.... if i push the pedal to the floor, it sorta pops into gear..

live life full throttle

 

[JHILL]

I agree with what Charles posted.

I think your asking for a lot out of a clutch ... Smooth Engagement, resonable shift speed, high rpm launches ...

your going to want an SFI approved clutch.

Ceramic 3600# for best all around use IMO. sub 500hp 4krpms.

The 1st one I ran - 2 years @ 484/1050, with 30 or so pulls, 4k+ Dirt drag launches,Dunes etc... 4k+ with a sled was a different story.

Replaced with same expecting different results. glazed badly and slipping after 6 pulls.

I never really had the urge to hit the track in my CC rowboat! ointlaugh:

The jury's still out for me on the SI as DD Clutch, if de glazed every other month or so, they are smoother - bieng a non sprung hub disk I am told it should shift faster. Good luck!

 

[Powerstroke Cowboy]

Give the sintered iron dual disc a shot. I've driven a pulling truck with one in it and it is smoother than my ceramic is.

From what I am seeing the sintered Iron clutch would be the way to go. I just cant decide what pedal pressure to go with and lever or diaphragm pressure plate. I think the Diaphragm would be better for DD and towing that has a lot of clutch in and out use.

What do you think?

Ceramic 3600# for best all around use IMO. sub 500hp 4krpms.

The 1st one I ran - 2 years @ 484/1050, with 30 or so pulls, 4k+ Dirt drag launches,Dunes etc... 4k+ with a sled was a different story.

Replaced with same expecting different results. glazed badly and slipping after 6 pulls.

I never really had the urge to hit the track in my CC rowboat! ointlaugh:

The jury's still out for me on the SI as DD Clutch, if de glazed every other month or so, they are smoother - bieng a non sprung hub disk I am told it should shift faster. Good luck!

Problem is I do not plan on being sub 500HP Right now the I slip a single disk rated for 500hp and 1000FTLBs..

With the sintered Iron clutch will it glaze with just daily driving? Or is that from a lot of 4000 rpm launches?

Would like to know what you have seen and dealt with on your Sintered iron clutch. And how long have you had it? What do you think of it so far as a DD clutch?


Is you SB SI clutch a quit one or is it one of the loud ones? Is the center pressure plate dampened in any way to keep it from clanking back and forth when the clutch is pushed in?



Again Thanks for the help guys!!!

 

[Powerstroke Cowboy]

OK here is the two Clutches I am looking at.. For the most part they both seem to fit the bill for what I would like my clutch to do. The one as you can see is only meant to be hooked to a sled maybe two time a year.. The other does not matter. For what i want to do as far as DD and towing heavy along with a couple hooks a year. What do you guys that have used you clutches for these purposes think??

If you were to do a lot of towing and just driving to work. But hooked to a sled a couple times a year and did a every now and then drag pass what clutch would you choose??

First.
http://haisleymachine.com/product_info.php?products_id=2369

Second..
http://haisleymachine.com/product_info.php?products_id=2370


Thanks again guys!

 

[JHILL]

From what I am seeing the sintered Iron clutch would be the way to go. I just cant decide what pedal pressure to go with and lever or diaphragm pressure plate. I think the Diaphragm would be better for DD and towing that has a lot of clutch in and out use.

What do you think?




Problem is I do not plan on being sub 500HP Right now the I slip a single disk rated for 500hp and 1000FTLBs..

With the sintered Iron clutch will it glaze with just daily driving? Or is that from a lot of 4000 rpm launches? Daily driving

Would like to know what you have seen and dealt with on your Sintered iron clutch. And how long have you had it? What do you think of it so far as a DD clutch?

about 10k miles and couple of pulls ,installed last August. Like I said Jury's still out for me as DD. empty is ok. city traffic can be a pain but thats the case with any clutch IMO. I have no reservations that it will hold up better pulling than the ceramic -to be fair that's not what its marketed/ listed as /COLOR]


Is you SB SI clutch a quit one or is it one of the loud ones? Is the center pressure plate dampened in any way to keep it from clanking back and forth when the clutch is pushed in?

its noisy, about the same as the previous ceramic with an added squeak upon engaugment, lol in the pictures from the link you can see the diff between hubs - sprung and solid. I did change to a lever style, a diaphram might have been a bit smoother, kept the 3600# plate load with our fine hydro system in mind.

http://www.southbendclutch.com/dd.html

 

[Powerstroke Cowboy]

Thanks! I take it the center plate (the one between the clutch pads) does not have any bumpers on it to keep it from moving around? i still think I might go sintered just for the holding power and the less grabby feel.

Thanks again!

David

 

[Dieselfever]

Thanks! I take it the center plate (the one between the clutch pads) does not have any bumpers on it to keep it from moving around? i still think I might go sintered just for the holding power and the less grabby feel.

Thanks again!

David

The HMR Street puller has a flat flywheel and the center plate has 3 tabs on the side of that bolt to the flywheel with spacers, It won't make any noise when you have it released(pushed in)

 

[Charles]

Thanks for this information! All the information I can get is great!

For what I spelled out. What would you say would be a good clutch to go with?




Charles Thanks for taking the time. What would you recommend for a clutch? You have a good idea of what i am looking for. I need a good towing clutch that can be launched at 4000 rpms.

What do you think would be best?

To be honest, I never found a good solution. I will say that I came across a cast aluminum master/slave assembly at an auto parts store that I have in my 550. Much firmer than the plastic ford junk.

As for the friction material, if you plan to slide that clutch (4000rpm launch) then you simply can't run ceramic buttons in my opinion. They will glaze over and start chattering on you. They can't take that kind of sh*t. A ceramic button wants to lock in and hold. It doesn't want to slide, heat up and glaze over.

For that, you need organic... (cringes...), iron or maybe brass. Iron is incredibly resilient, but also incredibly HEAVY. Always bare in mind the heavier the disc weight, the slower the shifts. The weight of that disc(s) determine's the momentum the syncros must slow down, and speed up to make up and down shifts. The heavier it is, the slower the shift and the greater the syncro stress.

This is where people ditch the hub springs to save weight, and sometimes pure real-estate. And while it does both of those, it also beats the SH*T out of your input shaft and everything behind it because combustion engine power is NOT smooth power. Every cylinder explosion warps that crankshaft and shocks that clutch disc. You can loose the springs and save weight on a dual disc, but you kill your trans sooner, plus is sounds like rolled over death, rattling the bearings out of it with no dampening.

I don't know man. I gave up.

To be honest, if someone held a gun to my head and said I had to daily drive a ZF again, I'd probably be looking into a Wilwood or similar shaft-mounted throwout bearing so I could run intense amounts of plate to get the torque capacity without multiple discs.

But even then.... you can't slide it, so that's out for you. If you're going to slide it, it must have multiple discs to share the heat/wear. Then it gets heavy, so....

Don't know...

 

[strokin'_tatsch]

From what I am seeing the sintered Iron clutch would be the way to go. I just cant decide what pedal pressure to go with and lever or diaphragm pressure plate. I think the Diaphragm would be better for DD and towing that has a lot of clutch in and out use.

What do you think?

I would try out a sintered iron, sprung hub, w/ a 3850 diaphragm pressure plate. My hydros aren't having any problems with my 3850, but I'm unsure of any differences between OBS and SD hydros. The diaphragm PP design should give you less pedal effort than the lever style. The sintered iron will make a little squeeling sound when your slipping the clutch, but it's not a huge deal. The only thing I don't know is how long they last. It seems like they last pretty good to me so far, but I haven't daily driven one yet. Might try that in my next truck.

 

[Powerstroke Cowboy]

The HMR Street puller has a flat flywheel and the center plate has 3 tabs on the side of that bolt to the flywheel with spacers, It won't make any noise when you have it released(pushed in)

That is the one reason like there clutches! I was trying to find out if South Bend did the same thing or not. When I get a clutch it will be from Haisley.
Just cant decide what one i will be going with. Either the Street puller or the Street Drag. Both would be nice to have. Just cant make up my mind yet.
I might do the street drag since it will be a little more quite and still can do a couple pulls a year with it. BUT how long will it last is the question........

To be honest, I never found a good solution. I will say that I came across a cast aluminum master/slave assembly at an auto parts store that I have in my 550. Much firmer than the plastic ford junk.

As for the friction material, if you plan to slide that clutch (4000rpm launch) then you simply can't run ceramic buttons in my opinion. They will glaze over and start chattering on you. They can't take that kind of sh*t. A ceramic button wants to lock in and hold. It doesn't want to slide, heat up and glaze over.

For that, you need organic... (cringes...), iron or maybe brass. Iron is incredibly resilient, but also incredibly HEAVY. Always bare in mind the heavier the disc weight, the slower the shifts. The weight of that disc(s) determine's the momentum the syncros must slow down, and speed up to make up and down shifts. The heavier it is, the slower the shift and the greater the syncro stress.

This is where people ditch the hub springs to save weight, and sometimes pure real-estate. And while it does both of those, it also beats the SH*T out of your input shaft and everything behind it because combustion engine power is NOT smooth power. Every cylinder explosion warps that crankshaft and shocks that clutch disc. You can loose the springs and save weight on a dual disc, but you kill your trans sooner, plus is sounds like rolled over death, rattling the bearings out of it with no dampening.

I don't know man. I gave up.

To be honest, if someone held a gun to my head and said I had to daily drive a ZF again, I'd probably be looking into a Wilwood or similar shaft-mounted throwout bearing so I could run intense amounts of plate to get the torque capacity without multiple discs.

But even then.... you can't slide it, so that's out for you. If you're going to slide it, it must have multiple discs to share the heat/wear. Then it gets heavy, so....

Don't know...

Charles I understand what you are saying. That is one of the biggest reasons I did not just out and buy another clutch, i wanted a lot of opinions from different people who have done it. I will say this if the ZF6 just does not cut it for what i do with a pickup. A built auto will be going in. I think the ZF6 will hold up. I really do not do a lot of fast shifting or even trying to. Just mainly steady driving and towing with no hard "fast" shifts.

Thanks for the time and help Charles!

I would try out a sintered iron, sprung hub, w/ a 3850 diaphragm pressure plate. My hydros aren't having any problems with my 3850, but I'm unsure of any differences between OBS and SD hydros. The diaphragm PP design should give you less pedal effort than the lever style. The sintered iron will make a little squeeling sound when your slipping the clutch, but it's not a huge deal. The only thing I don't know is how long they last. It seems like they last pretty good to me so far, but I haven't daily driven one yet. Might try that in my next truck.

Yea I have not made my mind up yet. It will be a Haisley Clutch just have not made up my mind what one yet.

Sintered might be the best bet now. But i really do not know. I think I will just call haisley. Tell them whats up and what i am going to do with the pickup. Then see what they tell me.



Thanks again for the help guys!! Keep the information coming, it been good!


Will report back with what i went with. And what i think of it.

 

[Dieselfever]

The street puller is a diaphragm pressure plate, only thing I have to compare it to was the factory DMFW that it replaced. The street puller is less effort

What south bend does for quiet disengaged operation is installing small rubber or neoprene(not 100% sure really) plugs on either side of each center plate ear(I just installed a 3250 in a 6.4 with it and it's quiet). The problem is I have another truck I work on that had one without that and when he was getting it rebuilt we talked to them about getting that for him but if you get the clutch hot they will distort or melt which will cause major issues because the plugs are about 3/8" wide, so that makes for about 3/4" of room for the plate to beat around in

 

[lincolnlocker]

fwiw, mine doesnt beat around and make that kind a noise, it sounds like sanding a piece of wood on a belt sander.

that is just some info for the next guy to read or search for clutches.

live life full throttle

 

[Powerstroke Cowboy]

Thanks again guys! i will be calling Haisley and see what they have to say. I will call in the AM and see what they say. i hope to get a new clutch soon!! It is nasty not being able to use the power I have at tap..

 

[Powerstroke Cowboy]

Talked to Haisley today. I told them what I plan on doing with the pickup. Daily driving and heavy towing, Allong with a couple hooks a year. And some 4000 RPM launches on the track.

They told me they would recommend the Street drag clutch.. That clutch has Ceramic discs.... They told me the Street Puller clutch should not be used as a DD clutch or used for towing?? There web site says it is ment for that??


What do you all think about this information?

 

[nwpastroker]

Just checking back in about the sb fdd36006 I brought up a few days ago. After being able to drive it a few days and tow a little I will say it holds power fine. Towing was sub 15k and no issues there. Very smooth. Slow to shift and a pita to get back into gear if you like resting your leg at stop lights like I do. I'm happy with it and may try pulling it once, but certainly won't be leaving at 4k.