Freightliner FL80 Questions/Build

[smcox1]

Oh damn! Ok so my initial weight guess is probably a lot on the heavy side the trailer has 2 8,000 pound axles so max would be 16k on the trailer plus whatever that truck weighs and rarely would it be loaded to 16,000 pounds. Exactly what all would they ask to make the decision on how it needs to be titled and licensed? If I tell them it's a farm rig how can they tell me it's not? I just hope this won't be some kind of titling cdl nightmare. This is the trailer I will be pulling. (Day I bought it, it no longer looks like that as it's going through a major renovation)

In the process of being polished. Whatever still has paint will be black.

 

[smcox1]

RV doesn't matter when you're involved in COMMERCE. Yes, winning a trophy is considered commerce.

So hauling show cattle in it can make a difference?

 

[PDT1081]

So hauling show cattle in it can make a difference?

Hauling pulling tractors makes a difference, so I'd say show cattle kinda follows the same lines. None of the laws are crystal clear, and there's gray areas left for interpretation throughout. It's a tricky situation that depends on how small the compliance officer's dick feels that day. If he's suffering from a serious case of little man syndrome, he could give you fits. And remember, there's thousands of people hauling in similar situations everyday that don't/haven't get caught. You could make 100 trips and never deal with any of this. Or, you could pass the first weigh station and get chased down.

And I didn't quote your other post, but remember, CDL requirements are based on gross vehicle weight (combined) RATING, not what it actually weighs. The truck should have more than a 10,001 lb rating, so 16,000 plus 10,001 is 26,001. That's CDL territory. The truck by itself may be under CDL limits, but as soon as you hook on to the trailer you will need one.

 

[tbsimmons]

Also depends on what state.
My understanding is in CA is:
You could be a farmer and be fine. I could get a semi and pull my fiver and as long as its registered as an RV its alright. Everything has to do with business. Here I would put not for hire on it and pull it.
The 26000 is not combined but one vehicle. If it was combined I would need it just driving my F450.

I would just read the rules so you can decide on how you want to swing it. Every state is different and every officer will give you his interpretation on it.

 

[jngreen]

I would think that there would be some way to get around having to hold a CDL for that rig. I have my class A CDL, and once you get it, it's not hard to maintain. I just have to get a medical cert every two years. But that would be a pain to ensure every driver of the truck has a valid CDL. I would try to plate it for right at 26,000 lbs combined. 10,000 for the truck and 16,000 for the trailer, for example. I would also put "not for hire" stickers on it somewhere. I'm not sure about the DOT numbers and inspections. I would also rehearse a story about how you are not selling the livestock you are hauling, and you are basically driving for a hobby and not for a living. I know lots of people who drive big trucks without a CDL, but it is mostly for farm use. That might be another avenue to explore. Either way, you are not going to attract as much attention as a big truck with a van trailer. Those are the guys they are going for.

Or you could just go get your CDL.

 

[jngreen]

Also depends on what state.
My understanding is in CA is:
You could be a farmer and be fine. I could get a semi and pull my fiver and as long as its registered as an RV its alright. Everything has to do with business. Here I would put not for hire on it and pull it.
The 26000 is not combined but one vehicle. If it was combined I would need it just driving my F450.

I would just read the rules so you can decide on how you want to swing it. Every state is different and every officer will give you his interpretation on it.

Not picking on you, but you are wrong on a couple of points. The 26000 is the limit for a combination vehicle. Some people say that if you are pulling a trailer over 10,000 lbs you need a CDL.
Also, while the laws are interpreted differently in every state, they are actually federal laws and are the same from state to state. The only difference might be if you hole a intrastate CDL, and are only licensed in one state. I have a interstate CDL, and am licensed to leave my state. The laws are different for those two distinctions.

 

[Strokersace]

Oh damn! Ok so my initial weight guess is probably a lot on the heavy side the trailer has 2 8,000 pound axles so max would be 16k on the trailer plus whatever that truck weighs and rarely would it be loaded to 16,000 pounds. Exactly what all would they ask to make the decision on how it needs to be titled and licensed? If I tell them it's a farm rig how can they tell me it's not? I just hope this won't be some kind of titling cdl nightmare. This is the trailer I will be pulling. (Day I bought it, it no longer looks like that as it's going through a major renovation)

In the process of being polished. Whatever still has paint will be black.

So how much does/will the trailer weigh by itself without cargo? I ask because I've always thought that the 16,000 lb capacity of the axles is total - trailer and contents. If it weighs 14k, then you can only add 2k worth of cattle weight before you're at the axle's advertised limit. If I'm wrong, then I've looked at it wrong for years.

 

[smcox1]

Nope that's how it works. I actually have no idea how much it weighs but its pretty light being aluminum and having a fiberglass roof.

 

[tbsimmons]

Not picking on you, but you are wrong on a couple of points. The 26000 is the limit for a combination vehicle. Some people say that if you are pulling a trailer over 10,000 lbs you need a CDL.
Also, while the laws are interpreted differently in every state, they are actually federal laws and are the same from state to state. The only difference might be if you hole a intrastate CDL, and are only licensed in one state. I have a interstate CDL, and am licensed to leave my state. The laws are different for those two distinctions.

I am right. Look it up for CA. If it is for personal use. The breaking point is weight of the trailer, not weight combined. Motorhomes are an example. 40' pusher towing a double stacker hauler for personal use. Class C can drive it.
The difference is for business like I stated. If they have a trailer under 15000# then combined can be over 26000#.
Ex. like again is my F450 with 33000 combined. If your statement were true I would need a CDL just to drive it.

 

[tbsimmons]

So how much does/will the trailer weigh by itself without cargo? I ask because I've always thought that the 16,000 lb capacity of the axles is total - trailer and contents. If it weighs 14k, then you can only add 2k worth of cattle weight before you're at the axle's advertised limit. If I'm wrong, then I've looked at it wrong for years.

Dont forget pin weight. 16000# axles I bet the pin weight is in the 3-3500 range.

 

[PDT1081]

I am right. Look it up for CA. If it is for personal use. The breaking point is weight of the trailer, not weight combined. Motorhomes are an example. 40' pusher towing a double stacker hauler for personal use. Class C can drive it.
The difference is for business like I stated. If they have a trailer under 15000# then combined can be over 26000#.
Ex. like again is my F450 with 33000 combined. If your statement were true I would need a CDL just to drive it.

You're F450 has a GVWR of less than 26,001lbs. You don't need a CDL top drive it until you hook onto a trailer that, when added to your GVWR is more than 26,001lbs.

Real life example. Company I used to work for had an F650 single axle dump truck. GVWR was 26,000lbs. They had a 25,000lbs trailer for moving equipment. You do not need a CDL to drive that truck alone. As soon as that truck gets hooked to the trailer, you can not drive it without a Class A CDL.

As for personal use, as soon as you accept compensation you are no longer personal use. Haul something for the neighbor and they give you $20 for fuel, that's not personal use. Haul something that wins a trophy, that's not personal use.

 

[jngreen]

I am right. Look it up for CA. If it is for personal use. The breaking point is weight of the trailer, not weight combined. Motorhomes are an example. 40' pusher towing a double stacker hauler for personal use. Class C can drive it.
The difference is for business like I stated. If they have a trailer under 15000# then combined can be over 26000#.
Ex. like again is my F450 with 33000 combined. If your statement were true I would need a CDL just to drive it.

I think we are saying the same thing, only in different ways. Look at my first post in this thread. I don't know the laws in regard to personal use of trucks and trailers. However, if you use a trailer to make money with behind your f450, you need a CDL.

 

[psduser1]

You're F450 has a GVWR of less than 26,001lbs. You don't need a CDL top drive it until you hook onto a trailer that, when added to your GVWR is more than 26,001lbs.

Real life example. Company I used to work for had an F650 single axle dump truck. GVWR was 26,000lbs. They had a 25,000lbs trailer for moving equipment. You do not need a CDL to drive that truck alone. As soon as that truck gets hooked to the trailer, you can not drive it without a Class A CDL.

As for personal use, as soon as you accept compensation you are no longer personal use. Haul something for the neighbor and they give you $20 for fuel, that's not personal use. Haul something that wins a trophy, that's not personal use.

Agricultural use is actually classified differently than other types of business, in regards to lisencing requirements. Your position as posted sounds like some arguments made by some dot officers here. Basically trying to lump ag work in with commercial carriers. It's definitely a grey area, and I can't blame an agency for trying to expand its jurisdiction. More money at stake, lol.
The root problem with that is the fact that"law" is based on tradition, including statutes. Traditionally, agriculture is exempt from commercial carriers statutes. Obviously, farming isn't the same as it was 30 or 50 yrs ago, when a lot of these statutes were written, and the agency is trying to cope with the differences. Easiest way is to make a blanket statement "if it makes you money, it must be a business". That is not nessecarily true, according to the legal definition of "business", which is where a lot of hangup occur, in my opinion. Which, btw, has exactly the same validity as anyone else's in a cut of law, lol.:thumbsup:

 

[Strokersace]

Nope that's how it works. I actually have no idea how much it weighs but its pretty light being aluminum and having a fiberglass roof.

It doesn't have a steel framework? The old one we had like that was steel with an aluminum skin and fiberglass roof. Heavy as hell! It was 8' wide and had dually axles under it. Was meant to be pulled by a semi. It was originally a 6 or 9 horse side load with a the entire rear being a tack room. We converted it to a 4 horse reverse slant with a huge front LQ. Pulled it with a full size freightliner with a 400 Cummins and a 13 SPD Eaton that was tagged as an RV. Never had a problem dragging it down the road. My dad has his CDL but i don't and got stopped once when I was driving, and we explained to them that it was an RV and had the proper paperwork for it. At that point they were more concerned about the horses in the trailer and if they had the proper paperwork and blood work done on them.

 

[smcox1]

It does have a steel frame but while bringing it back to my house after buying it (about a three hour drive) it didn't seem heavy behind the 6.4. It's meant to be a 4 horse head to head but with everything removed it is completely open in the back. And for the size and what I paid for it I couldn't turn it down. I don't think any of my trucks will have a problem pulling it loaded the freightliner is more for the "cool" factor I guess. I'm just worried that if I do get pulled over by someone having a hell of a bad day it's going to end up costing me.

 

[tbsimmons]

You're F450 has a GVWR of less than 26,001lbs. You don't need a CDL top drive it until you hook onto a trailer that, when added to your GVWR is more than 26,001lbs.

Real life example. Company I used to work for had an F650 single axle dump truck. GVWR was 26,000lbs. They had a 25,000lbs trailer for moving equipment. You do not need a CDL to drive that truck alone. As soon as that truck gets hooked to the trailer, you can not drive it without a Class A CDL.

As for personal use, as soon as you accept compensation you are no longer personal use. Haul something for the neighbor and they give you $20 for fuel, that's not personal use. Haul something that wins a trophy, that's not personal use.

You're right but he was stating combined over 26000. Here if any single puller is over 25999 then you need a different license.
You guys are forgetting it is personal, not business. Company and personal are different laws for DOT and license.

 

[tbsimmons]

I think we are saying the same thing, only in different ways. Look at my first post in this thread. I don't know the laws in regard to personal use of trucks and trailers. However, if you use a trailer to make money with behind your f450, you need a CDL.

Yep, money is the reason. Mine is for pulling the fiver only for recreational purposes.

 

[tbsimmons]

It does have a steel frame but while bringing it back to my house after buying it (about a three hour drive) it didn't seem heavy behind the 6.4. It's meant to be a 4 horse head to head but with everything removed it is completely open in the back. And for the size and what I paid for it I couldn't turn it down. I don't think any of my trucks will have a problem pulling it loaded the freightliner is more for the "cool" factor I guess. I'm just worried that if I do get pulled over by someone having a hell of a bad day it's going to end up costing me.

Look at gross combined of the trucks. I was looking at the 5500+ Chevy's and similar to what you are wanting. When I compared to the F450, the 550+ Chevy's couldnt touch it in the weight department. The others I jsust couldnt justify the cost since it is only used for a fiver puller and no money made. Grossing in the 28000-30000# range with a 13'6" fiver loaded I get 10 in my 450 if you wanted a comparison. I have 4.88's and I bet with 4.30's or even 4.10's I would be getting better.

 

[smcox1]

But the question is where does personal become business? Lets say you have a hundred head of cattle and take the calves to sell and you do this every year is this now considered a business? And I do own a show cattle operation and that's what will be hauled in this trailer but how can they prove that the cattle I'm hauling is for my business? Which brings us back to the first part of this post what is considered personal or a business?

 

[psduser1]

But the question is where does personal become business? Lets say you have a hundred head of cattle and take the calves to sell and you do this every year is this now considered a business? And I do own a show cattle operation and that's what will be hauled in this trailer but how can they prove that the cattle I'm hauling is for my business? Which brings us back to the first part of this post what is considered personal or a business?

It is what you say it is, and a dot officer may disagree. At that point, he may write the ticket, then you'll either pay it, or negotiate your case in front of a judge.