Guess the issue!?

[Mdub707]

Basically the heads sit flat... there's no "dome" in them. If the block was decked the pistons are pushed up farther and closer to the head. There is basically no room in there as it is, and the gasket is what is creating that gap. I believe the pistons protrude from the factory so they have to be really close to hitting before any machine work is even done. I know .008" is a rough estimate to the max that can be removed from the heads before there is issues. I know the Ford tech that was supposed to do mine told me if it went over .005-.006" he was going to order me new heads. Ford actually says the heads can't be machined at all, though most of us do it. I'd go with new heads personally. .012" or more off is a decent amount of material. Sounds like the shop did the right thing by adjusting the valve stem height, and sinking them in the head a little more.

If Kevin is right, and the block has been decked but the pistons weren't touched, that could be the issue right there.

 

[Derek@Vision Diesel]

i dont remember the piston
protrusion off the top of my head.. if they took X much off the deck Then they should have taken X much off the pistons

Basically the heads sit flat... there's no "dome" in them. If the block was decked the pistons are pushed up farther and closer to the head. There is basically no room in there as it is, and the gasket is what is creating that gap. I believe the pistons protrude from the factory so they have to be really close to hitting before any machine work is even done. I know .008" is a rough estimate to the max that can be removed from the heads before there is issues. I know the Ford tech that was supposed to do mine told me if it went over .005-.006" he was going to order me new heads. Ford actually says the heads can't be machined at all, though most of us do it. I'd go with new heads personally. .012" or more off is a decent amount of material. Sounds like the shop did the right thing by adjusting the valve stem height, and sinking them in the head a little more.

If Kevin is right, and the block has been decked but the pistons weren't touched, that could be the issue right there.

Completely agree with you, we have never had to take more than .006 off of a head so when he said .012-.014 I didn't exactly know what to think. Sounds to me like the shop that did it, wasn't exactly familiar with diesel heads.
If the valve protrusion is set correctly and the stems are ground correctly to match the amount taken off... what would be the issue with taking too much material off? Are you basically just weaking it at that point? Moving the glow plugs and injectors too close?

#5 clearly has had something touch it, there is a gouge in it. Though we can not for the life of us figure that one out.

All the valves look straight and look like they were sealing great around the valve seat.

 

[brian89]

I know on a harley if you have to little valve/piston clearance and you float the valves ever so slightly, say good bye pistons, valves etc. but on our trucks i feel like it would make all the cylinders have contact if that happened, maybe that valve was skipped in the machining process, might have stuck in the guide a little bit

 

[kyle43335]

piston protrusion is .030.+/- .002

 

[Derek@Vision Diesel]

piston protrusion is .030.+/- .002

Thank you!

 

[BullsEye]

Education here is great. Where was this when I was in high school.

 

[Derek@Vision Diesel]

I agree! We surely appreciate peoples willingness to help out. Though we still have no located an actual solution to the problem haha

 

[Strokersace]

So let me get this straight...



You are taking a customer's money because you told him YOU could fix his truck. But in reality you have absolutely no idea how to fix it or whats even wrong. So you offer up a free t-shirt to have the internet forum community help you figure out what it is??????

Sounds like bad business to me.


If I was a good paying customer that took something to a shop to have "fixed" and then found out they were pimping clothing on the internet in exchange for help cause they had no clue as to what was wrong with my pickup or how to fix it, I'D BE P*SSED!!!!!!!

 

[Derek@Vision Diesel]

So let me get this straight...



You are taking a customer's money because you told him YOU could fix his truck. But in reality you have absolutely no idea how to fix it or whats even wrong. So you offer up a free t-shirt to have the internet forum community help you figure out what it is??????

Sounds like bad business to me.


If I was a good paying customer that took something to a shop to have "fixed" and then found out they were pimping clothing on the internet in exchange for help cause they had no clue as to what was wrong with my pickup or how to fix it, I'D BE P*SSED!!!!!!!

Is that how it seems?

This man came to me, asking us to pull the cab on his truck because he was tired of pulling the heads with cab on. We told him that we would love to help him out and in fact didnt even charge him to pull the cab real quick so we could all take a closer look. I am not an expert engine builder, but I sure do love to figure things out and work on some of the oddball stuff. Which this is turning out to be it seems like. Everything is measuring out just fine so far.

We told him if we cant fix the issue then its free, which is how we always do business. I wont charge a diagnostic fee unless you are satisfied and the problem has been fixed.

The tshirt was just a fun idea to get some of our gear out there, expected that we would find something obvious once the head was off.... obviously that didn't happen though! Maybe I'll just send everyone a tshirt that guessed imp:

 

[kyle43335]

Pm sent.

 

[Derek@Vision Diesel]

Thanks Kyle! Will be in touch on monday!

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Snake]

The amount of material that's been removed from the heads already takes the heads out of spec (as Mdub said 3.74" min thickness). Not a total show stopper until you consider the new pistons and how the block surface looks: it appears the block has been decked also. If .010 was taken off the block, its essentially the same as taking .022 and .024 off the heads. Fixing other peoples' screw ups is twice as expensive as fixing it right the first time. IMO, those heads can't be used with that block.

 

[Big Angry Hillbilly]

Question for you guys, havent been in the business long enough to know the specs.

at what point do you get to "too much" on taking material off the deck? .012-.014 was removed here.
The valves and rockers all operated great before removal of the head, ill inspect lifters here in a few minutes. Really thought I would find something more obvious though.

Well here I am being "that guy" again!

Why are You charging a guy to fix his truck but asking the specs on a public internet forum.

I have done so many sets of heads I've probably forgotten about half of them. I quit counting at 37 cabs off. NEVER cut 6.0 heads.

The cost to your customer for new heads is cheaper than doing the job again on your dime.

You're taking an already weak and failure or crack prone casting and removing material from it.

Bad idea.

 

[04stroker]

Well here I am being "that guy" again!

Why are You charging a guy to fix his truck but asking the specs on a public internet forum.

I have done so many sets of heads I've probably forgotten about half of them. I quit counting at 37 cabs off. NEVER cut 6.0 heads.

The cost to your customer for new heads is cheaper than doing the job again on your dime.

You're taking an already weak and failure or crack prone casting and removing material from it.

Bad idea.

Why would you not take material off the heads? You think ford just throws away warped cores they get back? There is a minimum thickness for a reason.

 

[kyle43335]

Well here I am being "that guy" again!

Why are You charging a guy to fix his truck but asking the specs on a public internet forum.

I have done so many sets of heads I've probably forgotten about half of them. I quit counting at 37 cabs off. NEVER cut 6.0 heads.

The cost to your customer for new heads is cheaper than doing the job again on your dime.

You're taking an already weak and failure or crack prone casting and removing material from it.

Bad idea.

The fail is strong in you!!!

 

[04stroker]

The fail is strong in you!!!

Lmao. I don't understand why some people say that. Makes absolutely no sense.

 

[Derek@Vision Diesel]

Thanks rykkan for the PM. Good to know there are other people out there with the same frame of mind and willingness to help others.

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2

 

[04stroker]

No problem bud.

 

[96stroken and smokin]

Is that how it seems?

This man came to me, asking us to pull the cab on his truck because he was tired of pulling the heads with cab on. We told him that we would love to help him out and in fact didnt even charge him to pull the cab real quick so we could all take a closer look. I am not an expert engine builder, but I sure do love to figure things out and work on some of the oddball stuff. Which this is turning out to be it seems like. Everything is measuring out just fine so far.

We told him if we cant fix the issue then its free, which is how we always do business. I wont charge a diagnostic fee unless you are satisfied and the problem has been fixed.

The tshirt was just a fun idea to get some of our gear out there, expected that we would find something obvious once the head was off.... obviously that didn't happen though! Maybe I'll just send everyone a tshirt that guessed imp:

This is what I call good people right here most shops would of charged the guy a few hundred and started to throw parts at it and just kept spending his money for him and it's great to see powerstroke army members come together to help figure out the problem. :thumbsup:

 

[TheSmokinStroke2002]

This is what I call good people right here most shops would of charged the guy a few hundred and started to throw parts at it and just kept spending his money for him and it's great to see powerstroke army members come together to help figure out the problem. :thumbsup:

I agree. Sounds like they are taking care of the customer.