Guess the issue!?

[Derek@Vision Diesel]

Like I said... I believe that the deck mating surface is already too thin. It is one thing to roll the dice with your own repair...rolling the dice for a customer repair can bite you in the ass.

Having said that, we are still witnessing someone taking off a cab with no sure idea of why he's doing it. And he is asking you (and you and you and you) to diagnose the concern for him...

But that sounds like "business as usual"?

Yeah, first time pulling a cab here, first time with the heads off.... we told him we would have it fixed in 2 days and it would cost X amount, but we were totally just guessing at the issue.




ORRRRRR



I told him I couldnt diagnose the issue without going deeper into it, I gave him multiple tests to run (compression testing, measuring rocker lift, leak down tests ect..) That he could do before bringing it to us. He did all of this and found one low compression cylinder but thats about all, no reason for ticking noises.
I told him we would pull the cab for free so we could all check it out and learn from the situation. We are busy but I don't mind working at night if it means I am going to learn something. We arent here to rip anyone off, I for one just wanted to help the guy out since we had a lift and he only had a small car garage.

Your barking up the wrong tree, go home.

 

[HOLDERDOWN]

Props to you Derek


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[WoodBoy]

Maybe Hillbilly Asshat's business is going under due to poor management and attitude so he is trying to bring down what seems to be a well managed and respectful business (Vision Diesel).

We are not all blessed with the knowledge of everything like Hillbilly, so some of us have to ask questions while he doesnt. Wonder how many more cabs he has pulled and heads he has thrown away causing his CUSTOMER (not sure if he is credible of the plural customerS) more money for his stupidity during the amount of time these 11 pages were created? I feel like he has atleast pulled 7 or 8 cabs?

 

[hawgdoctor]

Wow this took a left hook fast. Hate to tell ya there hillbilly, but that is the way the stealerships work. The only thing they care about is the bottom line. Amid wrong? Nope. Not when they make a couple hundred bucks on each head. They put it on the customer. Have seen new heads right from ford that I wouldn't even install before having them decked. Tell me how you expect to torque out 5 thou of warp with an MLS gasket? It ain't gonna happen now matter how hard you try. Been in dealerships for 14 yrs so I know the game very well. Your not fooling me, or several others on here. For them its business as usual. We look out for our customers, and that will never change. Good day to you. Keel up the good work Derek. You have my support if you need it.

Adam

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[kyle43335]

Hillbilly and bill payer.

2 of psa's biggest ***in douche nozzles of 2012.

Psst. It was better when you two stem touchers,kept that bullchit to yourselfs

Lmfao..

 

[Mdub707]

After 5 years of having shoddy repairs done at the Ford house, I pretty much take anything I hear from a Ford trained diesel tech with a grain of salt. The only exception to this is the vendors on these forums. Dropping my truck off and having it sit for months to get repaired because the moron technicians didn't know squat, and then picking the truck up with the same issues it went in for? No thanks.

For the record, I did not say every job that needed gaskets needed heads. I said removing material from the deck surface necessitated head replacement.

Like I said... I believe that the deck mating surface is already too thin. It is one thing to roll the dice with your own repair...rolling the dice for a customer repair can bite you in the ass.

Having said that, we are still witnessing someone taking off a cab with no sure idea of why he's doing it. And he is asking you (and you and you and you) to diagnose the concern for him...

But that sounds like "business as usual"?

So you "believe" they're too thin, or they ARE too thin? Isn't that why Ford gives you a minimum thickness spec? Using the spec I believe you'll find that in most cases you can take a little material off and still be ok. You say new heads are to be used every time? What happens when you order two brand new heads from Ford, and they're out of spec for flatness? Send them back and hope the next one's are better? It's pretty basic engine building practice to have FLAT surfaces. Just because the heads are new, doesn't mean they're flat.


Now, that aside... what Derek is doing here doesn't really seem to be anyone elses business besides his shop, and his customer. It seems like the customer knew exactly what was going to be happening, so who is anyone else to say he's doing wrong? The thread seems to be more of a "guess what happened" for fun than anything, not really so he can fix the issue. I'm willing to bet if NO ONE replied to this thread, he'd still of got it fixed. I for one applaud him for putting it out here and asking questions. I wish some of the clowns that Ford paid to work on my truck during warranty were on the forums asking questions. Probably would have saved me a ton of grief and time, and Ford a lot of money.

 

[kyle43335]

After 5 years of having shoddy repairs done at the Ford house, I pretty much take anything I hear from a Ford trained diesel tech with a grain of salt. The only exception to this is the vendors on these forums. Dropping my truck off and having it sit for months to get repaired because the moron technicians didn't know squat, and then picking the truck up with the same issues it went in for? No thanks.






So you "believe" they're too thin, or they ARE too thin? Isn't that why Ford gives you a minimum thickness spec? Using the spec I believe you'll find that in most cases you can take a little material off and still be ok. You say new heads are to be used every time? What happens when you order two brand new heads from Ford, and they're out of spec for flatness? Send them back and hope the next one's are better? It's pretty basic engine building practice to have FLAT surfaces. Just because the heads are new, doesn't mean they're flat.


Now, that aside... what Derek is doing here doesn't really seem to be anyone elses business besides his shop, and his customer. It seems like the customer knew exactly what was going to be happening, so who is anyone else to say he's doing wrong? The thread seems to be more of a "guess what happened" for fun than anything, not really so he can fix the issue. I'm willing to bet if NO ONE replied to this thread, he'd still of got it fixed. I for one applaud him for putting it out here and asking questions. I wish some of the clowns that Ford paid to work on my truck during warranty were on the forums asking questions. Probably would have saved me a ton of grief and time, and Ford a lot of money.

spot on!!!!:clapping:

 

[04stroker]

Honestly with dealership experience myself any fool that can land a job at a dealer can go to and pass all the classes. Put in your time and those classes you get your fancy title of senior/master tech.

 

[Dave]

.008 is the max I would take off any 6.0 head and expect to remain in spec.

Hell I know several Ford techs that machine heads.

Hillbilly is right though. Ford doesnt reuse heads they destroy the 6.0 units.

 

[Snake]

Just like any profession, there's good techs and bad techs. Not saying BAH is a bad tech because I've seen him provide A LOT of great info on other forums, but IMO he's off base on this one.

If we're sending t-shirts out, I want a Holderdown Shenanigans edition. If you don't have them, make 'em. oke:

Actually, two of them. One for me, one for the wife.

 

[Dave]

BAH is excellent at what he does actually.

Hes also correct. Theres a ****load of machinists that dont understand 6.0 head specs when they do it.

 

[Derek@Vision Diesel]

Got a closer inspection of more of the valves this morning. Seems as though the previous machinist was straight out of high school.

10 out of the 16 valves on the passenger side (which we removed previously) show signs of not sealing correctly.

Another thing I thought of. If he took .012-.014 off of the surface of the head, then cut the valve stems, and recessed the valves.... Wouldnt you want to shim the spring to maintain seat pressure? Hell that right there could be the reason for valve/piston contact, couldnt it?

The vales hanging open because of lousy seat pressure? Maybe this minimal amount wouldnt affect it enough, but just something that ran through my mind this morning.

 

[Bill Payer]

Hillbilly and bill payer.

2 of psa's biggest ***in douche nozzles of 2012.

Psst. It was better when you two stem touchers,kept that bullchit to yourselfs

Lmfao..

Actually, it wasn't that long ago that we saw a similar "repair by committee" attempt on another venue that cost the customer his truck. By the time the "tech" was through trying everyones "suggestions", the poor bum, had no money left, still owed on the bill and the truck still wasn't fixed. The "tech" kept the guys truck in lieu of payment.

Now...if you think I'm a douche-nozzle, I couldn't care less. I've dealt with most of my customers for over 30 years and they do not share your opinion. I am not about to hose any of them down pretending to know things I don't.

 

[brian89]

Got a closer inspection of more of the valves this morning. Seems as though the previous machinist was straight out of high school.

10 out of the 16 valves on the passenger side (which we removed previously) show signs of not sealing correctly.

Another thing I thought of. If he took .012-.014 off of the surface of the head, then cut the valve stems, and recessed the valves.... Wouldnt you want to shim the spring to maintain seat pressure? Hell that right there could be the reason for valve/piston contact, couldnt it?

The vales hanging open because of lousy seat pressure? Maybe this minimal amount wouldnt affect it enough, but just something that ran through my mind this morning.

How do you shave material off the valve stem? You would just have to cut the seats and shim the valves, cutting valves .012-.014" would severely weaken them i would think

 

[fordfreak4life]

How do you shave material off the valve stem? You would just have to cut the seats and shim the valves, cutting valves .012-.014" would severely weaken them i would think

There's a tool on the valve grinder to grind the stem of the valve length down without harming anything for exactly this type of situation after redoing to seats n valve face to recess them... no harm no foul

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[brian89]

Does it just cut away some of the valve above where the keepers are?

 

[fordfreak4life]

Welcome. As far as I know decals are coming soon. Some guys already have one.

10/4

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[Derek@Vision Diesel]

Thats what I was getting at, you need to shim the spring in this instance right, or at least once you have taken enough off I would think it would be worth it.

Regardless though, I'll be able to measure protrusion tomorrow and I believe thats where our contact issue lies. The compression issue was the valve and the contact issue being the deck was ground by the pistons were not.

more tomorrow!

 

[fordfreak4life]

Thats what I was getting at, you need to shim the spring in this instance right, or at least once you have taken enough off I would think it would be worth it.

Regardless though, I'll be able to measure protrusion tomorrow and I believe thats where our contact issue lies. The compression issue was the valve and the contact issue being the deck was ground by the pistons were not.

more tomorrow!

Wouldn't hurt to shim them.... hell a .040 shim wouldn't hurt.... just raise seat pressure a lil

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[04stroker]

Thats what I was getting at, you need to shim the spring in this instance right, or at least once you have taken enough off I would think it would be worth it.

Regardless though, I'll be able to measure protrusion tomorrow and I believe thats where our contact issue lies. The compression issue was the valve and the contact issue being the deck was ground by the pistons were not.

more tomorrow!

You get my text back? Our cell towers went down locally.