H-11s vs ARP's

jdgleason · Jan 24, 2012

SPARTAN said:
I understand that. I would like to see a fresh build with brand new H-11's and properly sealed head gaskets see 80+ psi. If it doesn't hold, then I'll start believing there is an issue. Until then I am not going to acknowledge that ARP's are better than H-11 studs.

:whs: Tensile strength is tensile strength right?

Craig@MFI · Jan 24, 2012

What's properly sealed to you? We did the same with mikes as we did mine mike let his break in mainly because it was raining
I'm not saying arps are better than h-11s but anything with high boost the arps seem to hold better
Ask the guys at Rudy's they have been switching to mostly arp

WoodBoy · Jan 24, 2012

I would like to know how much the yield changes of each with thermal energy

jdgleason · Jan 24, 2012

Craig@MPD said:
What's properly sealed to you? We did the same with mikes as we did mine mike let his break in mainly because it was raining
I'm not saying arps are better than h-11s but anything with high boost the arps seem to hold better
Ask the guys at Rudy's they have been switching to mostly arp

Craig do you know of any common denominators on the ones that failed? Other than hi boost? It seems crazy that the same style/design object with a lesser tensile strength would outlast the stronger.

oneturboforme · Jan 24, 2012

Isn't h11 tensile 240000 and arp is 220000... So there close... Also doesn't the fact that arb lube is PROVEN to torque fasteners tighter and more consistance then oil... That's why you dont back arps off like h11st....also the arps are torqued at a WAY higher value which has to play a key role ..

Edit.. just did some research on fastner preload and stretch.. the all point to proper stretch and preload is key.... Each time you use a fasteners it should be .005" longer then before for that diameter... Also reading about determining proper stretch thereafter a formula and judging by that formula the h11s need to be torques at a higher value then arps to be seated right.. very interesting stuff out there if you Google proper fasteners stretch and preload..

bigrpowr · Jan 25, 2012

all good questions that i assume craig and mike will be finding out soon. just like their converter testing.

oneturboforme · Jan 25, 2012

I'm just wondering if the h11tq value is too low.... I'm not gonna argue and say there not stronger then arps bc they are...... Man horsepower tv had a tool that measured torque on head studs before they broke... and there stretxh ect.. that would be awesome if someone could do that with these

bigrpowr · Jan 25, 2012

oneturboforme said:
I'm just wondering if the h11tq value is too low.... I'm not gonna argue and say there not stronger then arps bc they are...... Man horsepower tv had a tool that measured torque on head studs before they broke... and there stretxh ect.. that would be awesome if someone could do that with these

i highly doubt it. i saw that on horsepower tv ... gotta remember there is an angle. i had 2 sets of ARP's on my 7.3 and blew gaskets with both sets, went to H-11's and never had a problem again, even after re torquing. my current h-11's are on their 5th torque with no issues. i believe these guys have hit the boost pressure wall (combined with bp and cylinder pressure), it may mean custom age or 625's , or it may mean o-ringed heads. but to immediately place blame on the studs, well.. thats just not really basing it on much. i'd like to see what other trucks rudy has at or over 90 psi that are running ARP's and living like craig says.

craig- do you sell h-11's ?

oneturboforme · Jan 25, 2012

I'm not saying h11s are not stronger I'm saying there not tqd at a high enough value to acheave the proper stretch, also just curipus what your h11st were tqd at woth your 7.3 ot 6.0.... I sure hope there all different

bigrpowr · Jan 25, 2012

oneturboforme said:
I'm not saying h11s are not stronger I'm saying there not tqd at a high enough value to acheave the proper stretch, also just curipus what your h11st were tqd at woth your 7.3 ot 6.0.... I sure hope there all different

oh yeah the tq values are all different. ARP's used black moly back in the day, now they use something else. H-11's for 6.4's use a grey moly iirc , not oil. but they came with the lube they wanted. i believe mike as well as just about everyone has had good luck with h-11's up until now, but since a hg blew on mikes truck instantly , thats the blame. it may or may not be the issue, but i think its pre mature at this point to say IMO. rudy blew 2 headgaskets that i know of with his race truck. once with a nitrous backfire (studs arent gonna help that) and when he put the big twins on and hit 100psi. im not sure if they were new studs in that motor or not. im also not sure if he was measuring back pressure, but i think bp can have a severe effect on cylinder pressure, which mike may have been a victim of as well. who knows.

Erikclaw · Jan 25, 2012

The bp issue you mentioned makes sense. More than likely there are some serious pressures going on with 80+psi and bp at who knows what levels.

jdgleason · Jan 25, 2012

oneturboforme said:
I'm just wondering if the h11tq value is too low.... I'm not gonna argue and say there not stronger then arps bc they are...... Man horsepower tv had a tool that measured torque on head studs before they broke... and there stretxh ect.. that would be awesome if someone could do that with these

I'm not convinced the lack of stretch of an h-11 is hurting their clamping force.... In fact it should make them superior should it not?

Craig@MFI · Jan 25, 2012

bigrpowr said:
i highly doubt it. i saw that on horsepower tv ... gotta remember there is an angle. i had 2 sets of ARP's on my 7.3 and blew gaskets with both sets, went to H-11's and never had a problem again, even after re torquing. my current h-11's are on their 5th torque with no issues. i believe these guys have hit the boost pressure wall (combined with bp and cylinder pressure), it may mean custom age or 625's , or it may mean o-ringed heads. but to immediately place blame on the studs, well.. thats just not really basing it on much. i'd like to see what other trucks rudy has at or over 90 psi that are running ARP's and living like craig says.

craig- do you sell h-11's ?

no i dont sell h-11s have always had bad luck with them as well as other shops i know put them in my 6.0 race truck first pass down the track it blew a headgasket....mikes truck has been through 3 sets of headgaskets all have which blown....maybe some of you have luck but in high boost situation like mikes and my truck h-11s obviously dont work.....i have been beating the living crap out of my truck with 80 psi track pass after pass 8000 miles on the street running it hard and has never puked a drop

Pmac21 · Jan 25, 2012

So which studs would be better for just a tuned truck? I run Spartan 275 - 310 a lot and mine started puking a few months back.

jdgleason · Jan 25, 2012

Pmac21 said:
So which studs would be better for just a tuned truck? I run Spartan 275 - 310 a lot and mine started puking a few months back.

General consensus has always been higher tensile strength is a better stud. So at that point some custom age 625s should be best... We all know that cost vs benefit is more realistic, which is why the h-11s are te most popular. Stronger than an arp but cheaper than 625.

Craig@MFI · Jan 25, 2012

jdgleason said:
General consensus has always been higher tensile strength is a better stud. So at that point some custom age 625s should be best... We all know that cost vs benefit is more realistic, which is why the h-11s are te most popular. Stronger than an arp but cheaper than 625.

If there so much stronger than arps than why did mike blow his headgaskets? He has less fuel than me and doesn't make the power I do with my arps and I haven't had a problem yet

Craig@MFI · Jan 25, 2012

Pmac21 said:
So which studs would be better for just a tuned truck? I run Spartan 275 - 310 a lot and mine started puking a few months back.

I would say go with arps they are just as good and they are alot cheaper

MINK · Jan 25, 2012

jdgleason said:
General consensus has always been higher tensile strength is a better stud. So at that point some custom age 625s should be best... We all know that cost vs benefit is more realistic, which is why the h-11s are te most popular. Stronger than an arp but cheaper than 625.

This is right on - however I went with the arps as I couldnt find a negative word about them and the price is very fair.

derrick36 · Jan 25, 2012

jdgleason said:
We all know that cost vs benefit is more realistic, which is why the h-11s are te most popular.

Are H-11's outselling ARP's? That doesn't seem realistic even though the ARP's haven't been out as long.

jdgleason · Jan 25, 2012

Craig@MPD said:
If there so much stronger than arps than why did mike blow his headgaskets? He has less fuel than me and doesn't make the power I do with my arps and I haven't had a problem yet

Are you implying that the tensile strength of arps is greater than h-11s?

We all heard that your arps are holding and mikes didnt this time, but we still havent seen any data to back up the statement that arp>h-11. The only factual hard data we have is tensile strength... that can be proven.

You absolutely arent going to tell me that every motor and every set up is created equal... you know better. I am interested in seeing what comes of this as far as data and facts to back it up.