H-11s vs ARP's

[Dustball8504]

This discussion is gay.

Are studs better then factory bolts? Yes. Are ARP 425's or H-11's good for 99% of the people out there? Yes.

End of discussion.

:whs: Although these threads do keep me entertained while I'm at work.

 

[Jeff@Spartan]

This discussion is gay.

Are studs better then factory bolts? Yes. Are ARP 425's or H-11's good for 99% of the people out there? Yes.

End of discussion.

Just throwing this out there...

Even though it shows me as the OP of the thread, I didn't do it!!! A balding moderator did it.....:lookaround:

LOL

 

[Jhaddox]

 

[Jeff@Spartan]

LOL LOL LOL

 

[jdgleason]

Thats a good portrait of him. I like the lighting lol

 

[Craig@MFI]

uke: this kind of crap, spreading false information is rediculous.

H-11 failure=INSTALLER ERROR 99% of the time. the other 1% is nitrous explosions, etc. by doing something else well beyond their intended purpose. It's been proven time, and time again that H-11 studs are stronger than ARP.

Aside from needing to start with a properly machined head to block surface, in the seasoning process of the studs, all studs must be tightened to the first level using the factory torque sequence, then individually loosened, and re-tightened in that sequence until the seasoning steps have taken place. Once seasoning is done, then continue to follow torque sequence taking the studs level by level to the final torque spec.

If while torquing the studs, you loosen all of them at the same time between sequences of re-tightening, you might as well give your tools to someone who can use them properly, and get a job selling fries at McDonald's after you apologize to the owner of the vehicle for wasting their gaskets.

studs were torqued to elite instructions by the tee...machined shop that has done all of our heads machined them to perfectly flat never had a issue

Maybe i should say this h-11s are good on tuned trucks with lite mods but when you step up to high boost applications they dont hold up no matter what you say 2 trucks have proving that they cant handle it

 

[Wayne]

This discussçion is gay.

Are studs better then factory bolts? Yes. Are ARP 425's or H-11's good for 99% of the people out there? Yes.

End of discussion.

I pretty much agree here. Sure seems like one vendor in particular :lookaround: likes to run other's names in the ground based off of unsubstanciated claims to make themselves look superior, and I'm getting tired of it. If you want false information, and drama, go watch the presidential candidates debate. Please (you know who you are) keep it to the facts, and leave the retarded speculation out of it. If you have real proof that an aftermarket manufacturer's parts have failed, that's one thing, and I'm sure the vendor will do their best to make it right before you go making outrageous claims running names through the mud. If this continues I'll be glad to stir the pot to help keep it real.:slap:

 

[Craig@MFI]

i never mentioned anything about elite or any company nore do i ever.... all i was getting at is i think there is a point at where h-11s wont hold thats all i was getting at

 

[Wayne]

studs were torqued to elite instructions by the tee...machined shop that has done all of our heads machined them to perfectly flat never had a issue

Maybe i should say this h-11s are good on tuned trucks with lite mods but when you step up to high boost applications they dont hold up no matter what you say 2 trucks have proving that they cant handle it

:bs:
http://powerstrokearmy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12021
Specifying the need to only loosen one at a time was not mentioned in this thread linked above since Anthony figured you would already understand that. Oops. There you go spreading rumors again about parts. Don't forget to mention that cylinder pressure, not boost is what lifts heads. Boost is only a contributor to cylinder pressure, so to say H-11's can't handle high boost is inaccurate, especially considering your track record of successful head gasket replacement jobs.

 

[03international]

:morons:

 

[Extended Power]

When I rebuilt my engine the last time, the block and heads were both decked.
I chose H-11's cause I found a deal on some brand new ones in a sealed box.
I also followed the instructions to a T....final torque value: 175 ft lbs.

I also used "Black Onyx" head gaskets...thinking that since everything was perfectly flat, they would hold.

And hold they did....for a year and a half with a single 64mm turbo.

After installing a 66 over an S480...the gaskets let loose after a week and a half. Mind you boost was over 80 psi at times, and back pressure was over 100 psi.

-I will be reusing the H11's again this time, but:
-using stock Ford head gaskets.
-using ARP's "Ultra Torque" lube on the nuts, and washers.
-using LocTite 625 on the install of the studs to the block.
-increasing the final torque to 220 ft lbs.

Not saying that it will work, but it's what I'm gonna try this time.

Just for the record...mine is a 6.0L...not a 6.4

 

[tensixniner]

They're two different kinds of ARP studs, 425 ( cheaper ones ) and 625 ( expensive ones ). This would be more of a comparison between the H-11 and the 625 ARP's.

Where can I find these 425 and 625 ARP's?

The ARP catalog only lists one part #
"Ford 6.4L Powerstroke ARP2000 250-4203"

http://arp-bolts.com/pages/viewcatalog.shtml

 

[lubeowner]

Torque th h-11 to the same spec as arps and then they both should have the same clapping force. Therefore they should both hold the same or the h-11 should hold more as there should be less stretch.

 

[jdgleason]

Torque th h-11 to the same spec as arps and then they both should have the same clapping force. Therefore they should both hold the same or the h-11 should hold more as there should be less stretch.

Wouldnt the clamping force of a stud with a higher tensile strength be more at the same torque? Yes. Thats why H-11s have a lower torque spec. If you overtorque them they can break.

 

[oneturboforme]

Wouldnt the clamping force of a stud with a higher tensile strength be more at the same torque? Yes. Thats why H-11s have a lower torque spec. If you overtorque them they can break.

That's incorrect.... You would actually have to pass the treshold where the stud starts to stretch which I imagine is pretty fn high to begain with... Also if the studs have higher tensil strength they will stretch less but are a stronger stud.. so to get the proper stretch and clamping force it should be tqd at a higher value... I would put money on the reasons h11st fail is the tq value is to low and the arps have higher clamping force..

 

[oneturboforme]

Easiest was to explain it is this way so let's say the h11s aren't stretched.... When I fastener is isntalled correctly it stretches this helps it and acts lile a spring if you will... So the arps are stretched... That's why they tell you to expect the stud to be .005 longer... So now im the h11s case its not stretched so when you get all that cylinder pressure on it.. its gonna over come the clqmping force because it doesn't a true preload on the fastner

 

[chromehound]

studs were torqued to elite instructions by the tee...machined shop that has done all of our heads machined them to perfectly flat never had a issue

Maybe i should say this h-11s are good on tuned trucks with lite mods but when you step up to high boost applications they dont hold up no matter what you say 2 trucks have proving that they cant handle it

So because two trucks have failed you condem a whole product? Seems a little short sighted to me, I mean how do you know that maybe those batches weren't a fluke that got contaminated somehow or something wasn't done right in the mfg process during those ones being made? I'd grant that if that were the case you'd probably be seeing more failures but maybe the reason people aren't hearing about it is because it hasen't happened to them yet for some reason, like not high enough power output or something. Have you contacted the mfg to see if this has been a problem that is being reported and is being taken care of?

 

[SEABEE08FX4]

Where can I find these 425 and 625 ARP's?

The ARP catalog only lists one part #
"Ford 6.4L Powerstroke ARP2000 250-4203"

http://arp-bolts.com/pages/viewcatalog.shtml

The 425 is the "2000" they don't make the 625 for the Fords yet only the cummins.

 

[jdgleason]

That's incorrect.... You would actually have to pass the treshold where the stud starts to stretch which I imagine is pretty fn high to begain with... Also if the studs have higher tensil strength they will stretch less but are a stronger stud.. so to get the proper stretch and clamping force it should be tqd at a higher value... I would put money on the reasons h11st fail is the tq value is to low and the arps have higher clamping force..

Both studs will stretch at their respected torque spec. That is a given. So, actually, you are right, except it doesnt apply to this argument, because the studs do stretch on these trucks.

 

[forcefed6.4ford]

Why wont anyone acknowledge the fact that 4 studs per hole is just not enough when running these boost numbers. Dodges have 6 per cylinder running 12mm 625 AND fire rings to hold this kind of boost pressure and maintain reliability. Asking a flat head that is just decked to keep a seal on things at 80+ psi is a little much. Im sure the logical reading this would agree.