Hiccup @ idle only

[GreenF350]

Ok, so I just got done with what I would consider some major upgrades...238/80 incjectors, 910 valve springs, pushrods, new tunes, head studs, glow plugs and UVCH's.

Cycled the key until I had good pressure on the FP gauge and then cranked truck twice before pluggin in the harness and cranked once more while watching ICP. As soon as it hit 500psi it fired right off and then of course ran rough, smoked a bit, etc. (All as expected, especially since it was only in the upper 20's) Took it for a drive to work the air out, it was really late so only went about 20 miles or so, took it back out this morning for another 60ish miles. It STILL has a rough idle or a miss/stumble at idle, but it only is noticeable at idle in neutral/park (I can hear and feel it). If you put it in gear it is almost 100% smooth, it MIGHT have just a bit of roughness, but if so, it's so minimal, I can't hear it and can only feel it a bit. If you hit the throttle, drive it, hammer on it, etc. it is smooth and sounds fine. I plan on driving it to work on Monday and that's almost 100mi round trip, but what do you guys think? I've never done a set of injectors, but I know I keep hearing about the air taking at least 50 miles to clear out (Which I've done and then some.).

Is this a case of air still in the oil rails, tuning issue, or something else? With the exception of the idle issue it seems fine. What should I be looking at to find out? Just a bit concerned after all that work on it and want to make sure it's right.
-Aaron

 

[dsberman94]

Did you beat on it on your drive? Gotta do some heavy footed driving to get all the air out. It could take 100 miles.

 

[GreenF350]

Fair enough...Guess I'll give'er hell on another drive tonight and see what happens, unless something gives it up tonight I will still drive it to work tomorrow and then report back. Thanks.

 

[GreenF350]

Well, with the holidays I had my days confused, I don't go to work until Monday. Lol. I've put about 150 miles on it since the injectors though and it doesn't seem to be getting any better. I almost sounds rythmic, like it might be one injector/cylinder causing the problem. It does it in the high idle tune as well, but it is much harder to notice with the higher RPMs. As SOON as you drop it into gear it smooths out and comes right back when you put it back in park/neutral. It's noticeable enough that my wife can tell too. It's raining today, so I don't know how much I will get to look at, but I am going to pull the ICP Sensor and check for oil and see if it idles any different. Other than that, not sure where to look. I have a Scangauge now and just ordered AE (been looking for a reason to get it for a few years now....this seemed a good of a time as any). I figure if I'm lucky a contribution test might show something and the buzz test and contribution test have never worked on my Scanguage.

I guess basically this is just a post to say it's still having issues, I'm open to suggestions and even though I don't want to go out in the rain to mess with it, I keep thinking about it. Haha!
-Aaron

 

[sootie]

i would get a scanner on it and run a power balance test.

 

[GreenF350]

Back at it....I'm going to continue along in here since it's still the same problem. It has now been driven over 600 miles. Plenty of full throttle runs. I used both my Scangauge and AE to run the buzz test and cylinder contribution test. Results are as follows....

Buzz Test: P1668 IDM/PCM Communication Fault

I've had that code forever...as in, since I first ran a buzz test on my truck....I think it was something like 2009, LONG before any of the current issues arose. I was told not to worry about it because it isn't causing any problems and no one knew what was causing it.

Cylinder Contribution: P0266 Cylinder 2, P0281 Cylinder 7.

These are new. To the best of my knowledge I never had these before I did the work listed above, although I hadn't run a cylinder contribution test in awhile either since the truck was running fine. (Aside from the symptoms of tired injectors..262,000mi on them).

It also now periodically turns on the "check engine" light for a few seconds randomly....usually either right about 10 miles from my house or when I really start to get into the "meat" of the pedal on a hard accelleration. When it does this, it is for P1316 IDM Codes Detected. I assume that's the cylinder contribution codes right?

Anyway, so I figure that the UVCH is probably not seated all the way on both sides since it is cyl. 7 & 2 (both on the end of the bank) and today I tore into it to see. Everything looked ok under the passenger side valve cover. I disconnected and reconnected the injectors and made sure that both sides of the valve cover plugs were installed good just for ****s and grins. Reassembled and since the other side was a PITA to get to, I figured I would put it together and see what (if anything) changed. The answer was nothing had changed. Still have the light smoke at startup and a rough idle once it is warm. Still getting cylinder 2 and 7 on the contribution tests, although I did get one run of the test that only gave me cylinder 7. (The side I messed with).

Since everthing was the same I figured I would check the wiring from the IDM to the injectors. Pulled the fender liner out (that is a miserable job if you try and be nice to the paint and fender) and unplugged the IDM. Pinned them out per the instructions floating around (I can tell you what pins to what pins if anyone would think it would help to know) and every injector was 2.8 or 2.9 ohms, well within limits and the rest were open as required.

At this point I am leaning toward possibly having gotten some bad injectors, but the place I got them from has a good reputation so I have been trying to rule out everything else first. I was very careful with the cleaning of injector bore, installation of injectors, etc. They all went in level, torqued to spec, copper washers installed (old ones out) etc. Is there anything I am missing? What else do you guys recommend to look at before I get ahold of the vendor that I got these from? I thought at one point it might be the tunes, but with what I am seeing I am thinking more hardware than software. Thoughts?
-Aaron

 

[dsberman94]

Where did you get the injectors from again? Being you're in Florida I hope it wasn't Pensacola.

 

[GreenF350]

Nope, wasn't those guys. Their reputation is FAR from good. I personally know of a few people that got injectors from Pensacola (because they were local) and seen the posts online. No way I'd take that chance. I was kind of avoiding the vendors names, but I suppose it won't really hurt as long as it stays to facts at this point. Just to be clear I HAVEN'T really involved them with this issue yet. I wanted to make sure I took care of my end before I started bugging them. The injectors are from Unlimited Diesel (bought through Gearhead) and the tunes are from Gearhead Performance. Both top tier companies in my mind.
-Aaron

 

[dsberman94]

Possiblility that you did get some bad injectors. I feel that you've checked your end thoroughly enough that I would give one of those companies a call.

 

[Gearhead]

Get me the MFD and ICP at idle warm when it is missing via PM or email.

 

[V-Ref]

Can you post a video....put a cup of coffee on the hpop reservoir or the oil fill spout cap so you can see the stumble or miss....and catch the exhaust note in the video too.

 

[GreenF350]

Get me the MFD and ICP at idle warm when it is missing via PM or email.

Thanks will do, I was trying not to bug you over the weekend. I'll send it probably a little later today. On that note, sorry my ignorance but what is MFD? I thought Manufacture Date, but that doesn't seem right in this situation.

Can you post a video....put a cup of coffee on the hpop reservoir or the oil fill spout cap so you can see the stumble or miss....and catch the exhaust note in the video too.

I'll see about doing this too, not sure how well the iphone will do for sound, but I'll give it a shot.
-Aaron

 

[dsberman94]

Thanks will do, I was trying not to bug you over the weekend. I'll send it probably a little later today. On that note, sorry my ignorance but what is MFD? I thought Manufacture Date, but that doesn't seem right in this situation.



I'll see about doing this too, not sure how well the iphone will do for sound, but I'll give it a shot.
-Aaron

iphone sound is actually very good on the newer versions.

 

[GreenF350]

These didn't seem to turn out too well to me, but maybe you guys can hear/see something I can't.

This video is a "walk around" outside. The only spot that sounds like it shows the rough running is in the back by the trailer hitch, but it is pretty steadily running rough through the whole video.
http://youtu.be/u44xT6DRMY8

This one is the coffee cup as requested. I didn't think it looked that bad in this video, but it is still running rough in it.
http://youtu.be/QM5tDYPW6Vk

This is one that shows how rough it is better. While I was messing with AE getting some numbers I had my seatbelt in the back shining in my face, but noticed it was moving with the engine. It starts in park (running rough), then I shift into drive (you can hear it and the shake smooths out and runs good), then back into park (starts running rough again), and then I rev it up a bit in park and back to idle.
http://youtu.be/1eiUvzb38bU

 

[V-Ref]

I just looked and listened these over....and it sounds/looks good by me. Sounds tough

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9kgHuoxlMQ

 

[lincolnlocker]

Soooooo, whats the problem here? Looks and sounds like a non stock injected 7.3 to me.. what is you icp doing at idle? Jumping around a lot?

live life full throttle

 

[V-Ref]

FYI...I've been told....that some of the mods out there being done to the 7.3 HEUI injectors to make them "quicker" may sacrifice or slightly degrade the idle resolution properties of the injector.....injector builders are not all in agreement on this issue.

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[GreenF350]

If that ends up the case, then I'm ok with that. I was just always under the impression that 80% nozzles could be made to idle like stock and shouldn't smoke on startup except when really cold, as in...below freezing cold. That being said...I can't even tell listening to the videos that it doesn't idle normal, but in person it is fairly obvious.

Even if it is running normal, everything can't be right with the P1316 that has shown up since the latest work can it? I never got my check engine light before all this either (which is always for the P1316 now).

Is there anyone around the Florida panhandle that wants to take a listen one of these weekends or has one I can listen to? I have never been around a 7.3 with other than stock injectors so I can't really comment, but for piece of mind I'd drive a ways to be reassured. Then I would just have to get to the bottom of that stupid P1316.
-Aaron

 

[lincolnlocker]

Go find a stock OBS 7.3 and listen to the idle. Bet it is super close to how yours is idling.

live life full throttle

 

[MossBack]

Mfd= mass fuel desired...


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