Intake Manifolds: Apex vs GoGo vs Elite

[jdc753]

I'm just trying to see where the true benefits are.

Because if "This one" flows 1000 cfm, and "That one" flows 900 cfm, and "The other one" flow 800 cfm...thats great.....but if the stock heads only allow a maximum of 600 cfm...who really cares which one flows the most?

The heads are still the real restriction.

Then that would be a totally different discussion, 1 part at a time, find out what the restriction in the system is, and then work on improving it. But flow testing both the heads and the intake at the same time would be a waste of time, or at least wouldn't narrow down results or improvements, just show a bulk change.


If the stock intake flows say 500CFM and the heads flow 800CFM, then a ported intake that flows 1000CFM would be an improvement on the system, but if you test both as a system then you will only either see 500CFM flow, or 800CFM flow and have no clue which one needs improvements.

Systematic testing of each individual component is the only way to determine the bottleneck in the system.

 

[sootie]

Then that would be a totally different discussion, 1 part at a time, find out what the restriction in the system is, and then work on improving it. But flow testing both the heads and the intake at the same time would be a waste of time, or at least wouldn't narrow down results or improvements, just show a bulk change.


If the stock intake flows say 500CFM and the heads flow 800CFM, then a ported intake that flows 1000CFM would be an improvement on the system, but if you test both as a system then you will only either see 500CFM flow, or 800CFM flow and have no clue which one needs improvements.

Systematic testing of each individual component is the only way to determine the bottleneck in the system.

true true-but on whos dime

 

[jdc753]

true true-but on whos dime

well generally from what I have seen in the gasser world most manufacturer's or machine shops, basically whoever is marketing the product has them tested so there is some empirical data to backup the claims of improvements. Everyone always asks about flow benching injectors, or turbo's and what not I don't see much difference between them and a ported intake, other than the market is much smaller, and the pictures of the interior work pretty much speak for themselves as there is an obvious improvement, the question lies with simply how much of an improvement is actually made, and then how does that relate to the heads in the overall flow of the system.

I am certainly not saying that all these producer's aren't putting out a quality product, I am sure it is a great improvement over stock, but basically we are buying a product based on faith and aesthetics of the finished product and nothing more.

 

[Mdub707]

If I'm not mistaken, the info is already out there for what a stock head flows and what a stock intake manifold flows broken down by cylinder.

 

[SEABEE08FX4]

The other benefit is equal air flow to all cylinders, not just over all CFM increase. The front cylinders get more volume than the rears do in and unported intake. A ported intake can just about get them all with in a few % of each other.

 

[Fast-6.0]

So how are you gonna bench test these?

Attach a stock cylinder head, and hold all of the intake valves open at the full lift value, then flow it, and then switch the intakes?

We have a ported head on the flowbench. Then we will isntall the intake and then we will flow the rear most ports and see what still supports the heads.

This testing won't take into account volume but should give us something to go by.

I am gonna get one of my 6.0 trucks running so we can do the same testing we have been doing on the 6.4, dyno and street testing.

 

[Extended Power]

We have a ported head on the flowbench. Then we will isntall the intake and then we will flow the rear most ports and see what still supports the heads.

This testing won't take into account volume but should give us something to go by.

I am gonna get one of my 6.0 trucks running so we can do the same testing we have been doing on the 6.4, dyno and street testing.

Thanks Tadd.

 

[SILVERSTROKER250]

I have the gogo stage 1 and i can say that i am very happy with it. Spool up is instant egt's dropped about 150 degrees, the motor seems to run smoother i would recommend it for sure.

 

[Powerstroked162]

I have the gogo stage 1 and i can say that i am very happy with it. Spool up is instant egt's dropped about 150 degrees, the motor seems to run smoother i would recommend it for sure.

Did you have an EGR delete prior to your swap?

Stock turbo too I presume?

.

 

[Extended Power]

Did you have an EGR delete prior to your swap?

Stock turbo too I presume?

.

Yeah....kinda weird what happens when you pull a soot filled intake manifold off, and stick on a clean one.

 

[Redneck6.0L]

I've installed a gogo and a elite, the elite one was a way nicer unit, less chance of a oring failure, never seen a apex one. But between a elite and gogo I'd buy the elite one, just my 2 cents

 

[Extended Power]

I've installed a gogo and a elite, the elite one was a way nicer unit, less chance of a oring failure, never seen a apex one. But between a elite and gogo I'd buy the elite one, just my 2 cents

Not to mention you probably don't have to wait 6 months for it to show up either.

 

[Fast-6.0]

Bringing this back up because we just got the flow tests done.

We installed the Zmax on a ported cylinder head and flowed the rearmost ports.

The cylinder head flows 197cfm @ .300" valve lift and 200cfm @ .400" valve lift.

The stock manifold and ported cylinder head flows 154cfm @ .300" lift and 157 @ .400".

The Zmax manifold and ported cylinder head flows 184cfm @ .300" lift and 189cfm @ .400" lift.

So it still restricts our ported head but it flows more than enough for a stock head.

I know the GOGO manifold was supposed to flow in the 240cfm range but I believe that was just the manifold on the flow bench and not flowing through an actual cylinder head so I can't say that those numbers are apples to apples for comparison.

So at the end of the day what does this mean, the Zmax is beneficial to anyone. If you have stock heads its more than enough. If you have ported heads then it will help but could use some more.

We will look into getting more flow out of the current Zmax for ported head guys.

 

[Zmann]

GoGo is out of this comparison anyway IMHO

 

[SEABEE08FX4]

Bringing this back up because we just got the flow tests done.

We installed the Zmax on a ported cylinder head and flowed the rearmost ports.

The cylinder head flows 197cfm @ .300" valve lift and 200cfm @ .400" valve lift.

The stock manifold and ported cylinder head flows 154cfm @ .300" lift and 157 @ .400".

The Zmax manifold and ported cylinder head flows 184cfm @ .300" lift and 189cfm @ .400" lift.

So it still restricts our ported head but it flows more than enough for a stock head.

I know the GOGO manifold was supposed to flow in the 240cfm range but I believe that was just the manifold on the flow bench and not flowing through an actual cylinder head so I can't say that those numbers are apples to apples for comparison.

So at the end of the day what does this mean, the Zmax is beneficial to anyone. If you have stock heads its more than enough. If you have ported heads then it will help but could use some more.

We will look into getting more flow out of the current Zmax for ported head guys.

Nice, do you think blending/radiusing the entry ports on the intake to head flange would change anything?

 

[HeavyAssault]

The stock manifold and ported cylinder head flows 154cfm @ .300" lift and 157 @ .400".

The Zmax manifold and ported cylinder head flows 184cfm @ .300" lift and 189cfm @ .400" lift.

This is proof enough that the "brand name" doesn't matter but the improvements in flow are there with a worked intake manifold.

 

[Redneck6.0L]

Thanks Tadd, good hard numbers with back to back comoarisons,

 

[Fast-6.0]

Nice, do you think blending/radiusing the entry ports on the intake to head flange would change anything?

We already have a radius there but yes I think that additional flow may be gained in that area.

 

[SEABEE08FX4]

We already have a radius there but yes I think that additional flow may be gained in that area.

10-4, thanks.

 

[windrunner408]

Bringing this back up because we just got the flow tests done.

We installed the Zmax on a ported cylinder head and flowed the rearmost ports.

The cylinder head flows 197cfm @ .300" valve lift and 200cfm @ .400" valve lift.

The stock manifold and ported cylinder head flows 154cfm @ .300" lift and 157 @ .400".

The Zmax manifold and ported cylinder head flows 184cfm @ .300" lift and 189cfm @ .400" lift.

So it still restricts our ported head but it flows more than enough for a stock head.

I know the GOGO manifold was supposed to flow in the 240cfm range but I believe that was just the manifold on the flow bench and not flowing through an actual cylinder head so I can't say that those numbers are apples to apples for comparison.

So at the end of the day what does this mean, the Zmax is beneficial to anyone. If you have stock heads its more than enough. If you have ported heads then it will help but could use some more.

We will look into getting more flow out of the current Zmax for ported head guys.

Thanks so much for the GREAT information. Any chance you could tell us (on average) how many CFMs a stock head flows at the rear ports??