Knock Knock, *** Me

jimdawg185 · Jan 21, 2017

Dzchey21 said:
Knowing what we have seen about this engine there was most likely a crush issue with the bearings. Fuel dilution would have been obvious on all rods and mains not just 3 of them.

I didn't go through the whole thread so I missed that part. But I would say a hydrodynamic film failure which would trigger an antiwear fail mode, would also not only effect three bearings unless it was a fluid flow failure because of airation and or cavitation somewhere. But then you could go back to fuel dilution as a possible source of the failure mode again because fuel dilution also decreases air release properties. And round and round. RCA would be the only true way to determine the failure mode, and the first thing we do is lubricant analysis, run Analytical Ferrography to determine the mode state. Then from there do the same with the failed bearings. But 98% of the time I can nail the mode with AF. Then it's just chasing the mode backwards.

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PsdPullerJr · Jan 24, 2017

So is bearing failure becoming a popular thing these trucks now? Friend of mine put a new long block into an 11 with 82k miles on it, I'm pretty sure all stock, no ******s or tunes. Every rod bearing was wiped out and the crank scored up pretty good. Kinda blamed it on maintenance even tho things didn't look too bad inside but now I'm wondering how common this may be.

Wayne · Jan 26, 2017

The short block showed up yesterday, but I couldn't touch it until today because of some other vehicle taking presedenece. I was able to spend most of today on it though.

These bearings are all from Erik's motor. I thought you guys might like to see the difference.

New '17 short block requires larger mount bracket bolts & brackets, as well as water pump plugs, and a couple other little things.

Just a little more work in the morning, and it'll be ready to install.

04cr450 · Jan 26, 2017

ehhh them bearings. thanks for sharing with us- very interested in this build. Thanks Wayne, and great work as well!

jimdawg185 · Jan 26, 2017

Wayne said:
The short block showed up yesterday, but I couldn't touch it until today because of some other vehicle taking presedenece. I was able to spend most of today on it though.

These bearings are all from Erik's motor. I thought you guys might like to see the difference.

New '17 short block requires larger mount bracket bolts & brackets, as well as water pump plugs, and a couple other little things.

Just a little more work in the morning, and it'll be ready to install.

Were that rod and main near each other (the failed ones)?

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Wayne · Jan 27, 2017

The pictured rods were on different journals, as the two that failed, shared a journal. The good one pictured was cyl 6. 3 and 7 failed. mains were "next to" each other. BTW, I'm not looking for somebody to diagnose the cause of failure for me, but anyone is more than welcome to speculate. :thumbup:

gfulton · Jan 27, 2017

Wayne said:
The pictured rods were on different journals, as the two that failed, shared a journal. The good one pictured was cyl 6. 3 and 7 failed. mains were "next to" each other. BTW, I'm not looking for somebody to diagnose the cause of failure for me, but anyone is more than welcome to speculate. :thumbup:

Wayne you might wanna talk with Tadd about this......

Sportchassis06 · Jan 27, 2017

Wayne said:
The pictured rods were on different journals, as the two that failed, shared a journal. The good one pictured was cyl 6. 3 and 7 failed. mains were "next to" each other. BTW, I'm not looking for somebody to diagnose the cause of failure for me, but anyone is more than welcome to speculate. :thumbup:

Easy to Speculate,when youre not doing the work!

Wayne · Jan 27, 2017

gfulton said:
Wayne you might wanna talk with Tadd about this......

I'm good, thanks. There are no Elite parts on this truck.

getstroked27 · Jan 27, 2017

Looks similar to the engines we tore up this past race season. Was there any other damage? torn up cylinder walls, piston skirts or anything like that? or was it just a bearing failure? I know there is about an 800 hp difference between the trucks, but we were running into both heat issues and crank walk. Seemed like the surface was getting too hot, eating the bearings then the crank would start moving around when it had a little wiggle room.....

Wayne · Jan 27, 2017

thrust bearings looked perfect. only cylinder wall damage was some scuffing on 3 & 7. No skirt damage. the pistons in those cylinders made light contact with their valves, so those got replaced. They didn't hit hard enough to cause any damage to the heads, but valves in question were replaced just in case.

outacntrl · Jan 27, 2017

Wayne said:
The pictured rods were on different journals, as the two that failed, shared a journal. The good one pictured was cyl 6. 3 and 7 failed. mains were "next to" each other. BTW, I'm not looking for somebody to diagnose the cause of failure for me, but anyone is more than welcome to speculate.

So what was the cause of failure?

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Bustedknuckles · Jan 29, 2017

Wayne · Jan 29, 2017

I strongly suspect the oil pump failed on that one Bustedknuckles. There's a TSB out there requiring a bunch of the '17 power strokes do an oil pump function test involving a 2400 - 2500 rpm 1/2 hr+ high idle, then an 8 hour cold soak and restart while monitoring rpm's and the low pressure oil switch. They anticipate it affecting less than 1% of the trucks, but that must have been in the 1%. This one is most likely a spun rod bearing as the root cause.

04cr450 · Feb 6, 2017

Any updates on the repairs /cause of the failure?

Wayne · Feb 6, 2017

The truck's been done for a week now, and runs great. As I explained earlier, it spun a rod bearing, causing other subsequent damage. Oil quality was not to blame, so suspicion lies in insufficient bearing crush. We're just waiting on some paperwork on Erik's end involving lost documents needing duplicates and other hoops to jump through for warranty coverage, then it's back home to Cali.

04cr450 · Feb 6, 2017

Wayne said:
The truck's been done for a week now, and runs great. As I explained earlier, it spun a rod bearing, causing other subsequent damage. Oil quality was not to blame, so suspicion lies in insufficient bearing crush. We're just waiting on some paperwork on Erik's end involving lost documents needing duplicates and other hoops to jump through for warranty coverage, then it's back home to Cali.

Wonderful to hear great job o everything! So the result just cough it up to bad luck? I knew it spun a bearing just seeing if anything else failed etc etc (I should have said that my fault)

Wayne · Feb 6, 2017

Yeah, no identifiable user error. Nothing anyone could've done different in maintenance or driving to prevent this one. Just bad luck. Thankfully this is a very rare situation on these newer 6.7's.

Jomax · Feb 7, 2017

Wayne said:
Yeah, no identifiable user error. Nothing anyone could've done different in maintenance or driving to prevent this one. Just bad luck. Thankfully this is a very rare situation on these newer 6.7's.

I don't think it's luck anymore with Eric.. I'm surprised he hasn't given up on Ford entirely...

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