manual or auto

[always-strokin]

I was under the impression this was an opinion thread? I wasn't arguing zf vs Xr or anything like that. I was arguing that when it comes to driving, nothing is like a standard. But then hot shot rolls in here throwing power figures around and claiming this electronic can do this and that. Then he completely misses my unnecessary slang of "clutch" where I was referring to the concept of MANUAL ENGAGEMENT of a clutch PEDAL. Suddenly I'm the village tard because I claim autos don't have a clutch. The **** outta here. While I may be fairly new to diesels because my gasses took more money than the cost of a diesel to make the same power, I've quite a bit of experience with standards and autos; in particular swapping them out.

Since my last post I've educated myself on the standard and auto trans made available for our trucks. Yes, it appears the auto can handle more. Understand: I just came back from Japan where auto skylines were swapped on the daily. Where its only $3000 to buy a supra, but its auto and non turbo. The autos I'm used to are not power handlers. I was wrong to assume the same on a completely different platform, basically an entirely new level. So, how many more dick head comments can I get out of you after admitting I was wrong?

Not only are you a noob to diesels, but you are arguing with a guy (charles) whos made more 1k hp 7.3's than I've taken ****s.

Sooo.... Does this only apply to Ford's? I have a buddy with a 8k$ auto trans in a 99 derge that won't hold 400 hp to save its life. Vs my ol lady's derge 5speed that is holding 400, stock stock clutch and 365k...

sent while looking at a hole in my block

48re trannys suck asshole. YES, this is applying to ford trannies. Ford makes an impeccable driveline... dodge makes an impeccably terrible driveline. Guys actually use ford trannies in hi-hp swaps relatively often.

 

[Da6d]

Not only are you a noob to diesels, but you are arguing with a guy (charles) whos made more 1k hp 7.3's than I've taken ****s

That's great and all, but this was an opinion thread, and he was the one arguing semantics. I never stated I was a better diesel builder, person, or had a bigger dick. I even gave him the easy way out to not be a dick about it;

No hard feelings, the auto vs standard arguement always gets more heated than it needs to be.

But, he kept at it. Again, I admitted my fault in the debate. I was also debating ZF6 vs 5r/4r. Again, my fault for not realizing there's newer **** out there lol. Doesn't matter had sex.

 

[always-strokin]

That's great and all, but this was an opinion thread, and he was the one arguing semantics. I never stated I was a better diesel builder, person, or had a bigger dick. I even gave him the easy way out to not be a dick about it

Its alright, I get it. But the autos on these trucks can be tuned so finely that they really are unbeatable.

I was a firm hater of anything other than a straight drive behind a diesel... until I bought an auto and then realized how insane tuning can make the truck.

 

[m j]

Weird, because the exact reason you're going to have such a hard time with the above two suggestions if you make it out from under your rock and to a dealer is that the manual is too weak to play anymore.

this is just more BS.
there is no problem making a transmission to handle the power.
if Ford wanted to have a manual to survive behind their truck motor they would simply place an order for one and the suppliers would line up to build them.

 

[m j]

Its alright, I get it. But the autos on these trucks can be tuned so finely that they really are unbeatable.

I was a firm hater of anything other than a straight drive behind a diesel... until I bought an auto and then realized how insane tuning can make the truck.

the 'hated' part of an auto, and pretty much what makes them an auto, is/was the torque convertor and its slippage.
the lockup convertor pretty much turns the auto into a manual transmission.
the lockup now allows the 'auto' to no longer create the heat issues it once had from the TC.

 

[stroker2]

there is no problem making a transmission to handle the power.
if Ford wanted to have a manual to survive behind their truck motor they would simply place an order for one and the suppliers would line up to build them.

^^^^This

 

[Charles]

this is just more BS.
there is no problem making a transmission to handle the power.
if Ford wanted to have a manual to survive behind their truck motor they would simply place an order for one and the suppliers would line up to build them.

So of Ford, Dodge and Chevy which of them did manufacturers line up to provide manual transmission solutions for 400hp engines?

Why is the dodge DERATED with the manual trans option?

Because first... no, nobody is chomping at the bit to build and warrant a syncronized trans to hold 800+ lb/ft in a diesel pickup, second it would still never have the starting torque capability of an auto with a torque converter so you'd have to overgear the truck for a given GVWR, killing MPG, and lastly, if you didn't care about any of that, nobody with a brain would buy the junk when they can have full-manual autos, factory rated to full engine power.

 

[always-strokin]

the 'hated' part of an auto, and pretty much what makes them an auto, is/was the torque convertor and its slippage.
the lockup convertor pretty much turns the auto into a manual transmission.
the lockup now allows the 'auto' to no longer create the heat issues it once had from the TC.

The slippage of the torque convertor is extremely beneficial when pulling a load off the line; its an insane torque multiplier.

But once the load is moving, you do want the TC locked which increases power to the road and decreases wear and tear (read: heat) on the tranny.

On stock tuning, lockup strategy really does suck. When tuned, lockup strategy is absolutely astonishing, and works wonders.

 

[always-strokin]

Why is the dodge DERATED with the manual trans option?

exactly spot on. Dodge is the only one w/ the option right now, and its something like 100ft-lbs less (maybe 150ft-lbs) that they are detuned for.

 

[Jason]

Kind of off-topic, but since we are bringing lockup strategy into play...

My '00 regular cab, shifts identical (strategy wise) to my '02 using Matt's tunes and the pmt1 strategy. Is it possible for '00 to carry the same strategy? I WAS under the impression it was a '01 ecm code, but I have been wrong. Truck is completely stock, under light throttle it shifts through the gears normally, and keeps the converter unlocked til 40-45..under harder throttle it locks it on the 1-2 shift and keeps it locked from there out, and will hold it until slowed down below 25-30mph. I dunno, it makes that little truck feel a lot more fiesty.

 

[7.3 Cowboy]

So of Ford, Dodge and Chevy which of them did manufacturers line up to provide manual transmission solutions for 400hp engines?

Why is the dodge DERATED with the manual trans option?

Because first... no, nobody is chomping at the bit to build and warrant a syncronized trans to hold 800+ lb/ft in a diesel pickup, second it would still never have the starting torque capability of an auto with a torque converter so you'd have to overgear the truck for a given GVWR, killing MPG, and lastly, if you didn't care about any of that, nobody with a brain would buy the junk when they can have full-manual autos, factory rated to full engine power.

If they can build junk manuals to hold 2000+ ftlbs in semis why couldn't make one for a 800+ftlbs pickup? There must be something I am missing

 

[always-strokin]

If they can build junk manuals to hold 2000+ ftlbs in semis why couldn't make one for a 800+ftlbs pickup? There must be something I am missing

The same reason they use 15liters to make 500hp, when we can do it with 7.3 liters (or eve 6.0 liters or 6.4 liters...). Huge parts that are in essence "detuned" to handle such numbers.

Those transmissions are also half the size of your average pickup truck.... try fitting one of those behemoths in one of our pickups

 

[Morgan@Midwest Diesel & Auto]

If they can build junk manuals to hold 2000+ ftlbs in semis why couldn't make one for a 800+ftlbs pickup? There must be something I am missing

One word, synchronizer. Find any manual transmission able to handle 1000ft lbs and check two things, is it synchronized and does it weigh less than 200 lbs. Likely in all cases the answer will be NO.

Any pickup manufacturer is not stupid enough to use something that most people are not competent enought to drive "synchronized". Then why would you design a truck for a giant medium duty truck manual trans that 1% of purchasers are going to buy anyway?

And why would anyone want some big, bulky, slow shifting POS large truck trans in their pickup. I guess the only answer is so they could prove that they must be superior because they shift their own gears?

 

[Powerstroked162]

One word, synchronizer. Find any manual transmission able to handle 1000ft lbs and check two things, is it synchronized and does it weigh less than 200 lbs. Likely in all cases the answer will be NO.

Any pickup manufacturer is not stupid enough to use something that most people are not competent enought to drive "synchronized". Then why would you design a truck for a giant medium duty truck manual trans that 1% of purchasers are going to buy anyway?

And why would anyone want some big, bulky, slow shifting POS large truck trans in their pickup. I guess the only answer is so they could prove that they must be superior because they shift their own gears?

lol awesome.


.

 

[7.3 Cowboy]

The same reason they use 15liters to make 500hp, when we can do it with 7.3 liters (or eve 6.0 liters or 6.4 liters...). Huge parts that are in essence "detuned" to handle such numbers.

Those transmissions are also half the size of your average pickup truck.... try fitting one of those behemoths in one of our pickups

you mean twice the size...The eaton 9spd in our one semi wieghts like 650 and the zf-6 at 240.lbs Im sure if someone wanted to they would find a way to do it

 

[always-strokin]

you mean twice the size...The eaton 9spd in our one semi wieghts like 650 and the zf-6 at 240.lbs Im sure if someone wanted to they would find a way to do it

I meant, quite literally, half the size of the pickup truck itself

 

[7.3 Cowboy]

One word, synchronizer. Find any manual transmission able to handle 1000ft lbs and check two things, is it synchronized and does it weigh less than 200 lbs. Likely in all cases the answer will be NO.

Any pickup manufacturer is not stupid enough to use something that most people are not competent enought to drive "synchronized". Then why would you design a truck for a giant medium duty truck manual trans that 1% of purchasers are going to buy anyway?

And why would anyone want some big, bulky, slow shifting POS large truck trans in their pickup. I guess the only answer is so they could prove that they must be superior because they shift their own gears?

You make a valid piont. I bet it could be done just look at how far everthing has came why couldnt a manual tranny? instead of putting a bulky slow shifting pos tranny why not make a heavier torque rated normal pickup manual?

I dont think nothing is POS about a tranny that goes down the road at 2000 ftlbs wieghing 80000 lbs

I guess I will just keep feeling "superior" driving my out dated slow shifting POS and when your computer or shift controller goes out on the allmighty automatic Ill just driveby and wave...

 

[7.3 Whitey]

Manuals are awesome... Automatics are amazing with a tune...
Fwiw I think if you have a stock truck then by all means go for it. After stock you better have cash on hand...

 

[Binder man]

You make a valid piont. I bet it could be done just look at how far everthing has came why couldnt a manual tranny? instead of putting a bulky slow shifting pos tranny why not make a heavier torque rated normal pickup manual?

I dont think nothing is POS about a tranny that goes down the road at 2000 ftlbs wieghing 80000 lbs

I guess I will just keep feeling "superior" driving my out dated slow shifting POS and when your computer or shift controller goes out on the allmighty automatic Ill just driveby and wave...

Hope that zf6 never bends a clutch fork or eats a master/slave. Why are we still arguing? We can go days on what's better or what will break first. Who cares. Anything on wheels with a motor is a POS that will break down eventually.

 

[7.3 Cowboy]

Anything on wheels with a motor is a POS that will break down eventually.

that't exactly true