My diy traction bars.

[Pstroke96]

How much weight should I throw in the bed


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i see you have access to a fork lift, put a pallet in the bed and push the truck down with the fork lift

 

[Jake]

Those don't look bad!!
Like you said I think 2" lower on the rear holes would help and then just some actual heim joints on the axle end and bushings on the top to help with noise/ vibration transfer.
Ballistic fab has horrible service there are many many other places like ruffstuff blue torch fab etc I would use before them.

I am fixing to build a set also. I just ordered some stuff from ballistic, I used to do a ton of business with them 5-6 years ago and they did well then, I didn't realize how bad of a rep they created until after my recent order but the stuff shipped 2 days after my order so we will see if they have pulled there head out of there ....

blue torch was the other one I was trying to find and couldn't remember the name. Thanks!!

I keep thinking about having the two point axle attachment and a shackle at the from. But the truck is going to get 4 linked and air bagged. Has anybody had any binding issues with 72" long bars with a poly bushing on one end and a Daystar poly swivel on the other end? I have to get something built since my rear springs hate my new horse trailer.

 

[INFRNL]

and in case you weren't aware, i'll explain just what suspension bind is. if you already know, deal with it and don't read.

when your suspension compresses, the rear axle does not move straight up and down. as the axle moves up through the travel is moves back towards the rear of the truck. this is why correct angle of the bar is so important. if the angle is wrong, it will not allow the axle to move towards the rear, and this is where that tremendous additional pressure on that front bolt comes from.

the axle wants to go toward the rear, the bar either makes it go to far, or not far enough, it sits on the bar, so one of a few things have to happen. shear the spring bolt, shear the trac bar bolts, or seriously wollar some things out.

just pointing some things out.

carry on.

Hey Tree Trimmer,
I'm curious what kind of background you have with suspensions, traction bars, etc? Seems like you know a great deal, just wondering.

I have some knowledge as well, but I am no expert either. I am a bit rusty and need to double check my info, but would like to add a couple of things to what you have mentioned. You have made some good points that many do not realize or understand about suspensions and traction bars.


One of the most important facts that goes in correlation with what tree trimmer has mentioned is: the bars MUST be parallel to the driveline. This is another reason why you will get binding and/or issues as tree trimmer has mentioned.

I would also like to add that traction bars typically need to be at least 54" long to be effective. This will vary for each vehicle depending on lift, wheelbase, etc.
This is why the adjustable length OUO would be a wise choice.

The mount on the axle needs to be a certain length, but I do not recall what the minimum length is. I want to say the minimum bracket length must be 2.5" but I will have to find out. If its too short, the design will not be effective.

I believe DOM tubing is the best choice, for many reasons, but I think there are some materials that will give good results as well. I would not use typical steel tubing, but that's just me.

I will post more to try to help if I can.

 

[Tree Trimmer]

Hey Tree Trimmer,
I'm curious what kind of background you have with suspensions, traction bars, etc? Seems like you know a great deal, just wondering.

I have some knowledge as well, but I am no expert either. I am a bit rusty and need to double check my info, but would like to add a couple of things to what you have mentioned. You have made some good points that many do not realize or understand about suspensions and traction bars.


One of the most important facts that goes in correlation with what tree trimmer has mentioned is: the bars MUST be parallel to the driveline. This is another reason why you will get binding and/or issues as tree trimmer has mentioned.

this is incorrect. the angle of the driveline is just a starting point.

I would also like to add that traction bars typically need to be at least 54" long to be effective. This will vary for each vehicle depending on lift, wheelbase, etc.This is why the adjustable length OUO would be a wise choice.

there is no minimum, or maximum length

The mount on the axle needs to be a certain length, but I do not recall what the minimum length is. I want to say the minimum bracket length must be 2.5" but I will have to find out. If its too short, the design will not be effective.

I believe DOM tubing is the best choice, for many reasons, but I think there are some materials that will give good results as well. I would not use typical steel tubing, but that's just me.

do you know what DOM tubing is?? it stands for domestic. as in made in the usa. 2", 1/4" thick wall round tubing, is pretty standard. generally we have better steel, but they have cheaper steel.

I will post more to try to help if I can.

your kinda right.

 

[NotStock]

DOM stands for "drawn over mandrel". There are domestic and import variations available...

 

[Demon]

Absolutely DOM. Is drawn over mandrel. That is the name of the process of how the tube is made.

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[OldschoolPSD]

Drawn over mandrel... its round tubing. The other stuff is technically pipe.

 

[smokedout250]

Well gents ill report back while everyone has the opinion, these have worked out great! I've gotten at least an oil change on these bars. I love them! They work great on the track and under load!!! No binding, noise or anything... They have turned out great!!

Here it towing up around 18k total

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[INFRNL]

your kinda right.

I will try to find the info to back up my statements. I did extensive research when I was going to do coilovers and 4 links on my 79.

DOM stands for "drawn over mandrel". There are domestic and import variations available...

Everyone should know this.

Absolutely DOM. Is drawn over mandrel. That is the name of the process of how the tube is made.

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I am not sure if this applies to all DOM, but its also seamless. There are some nice features of DOM that cannot be found in any other tubing. I know some know this but DOM tubing is capable of flexing more than other tubing and still being able to return to its original shape. this would come in very handy for off roading and rock crawling. Other steels will bend and not return back. I would not buy tubing that is not DOM or is not specified. DOM is also not the standard steel for all traction bars but should be.
Sorry, Did not mean to post this under you, but it was a good spot to add info.

Well gents ill report back while everyone has the opinion, these have worked out great! I've gotten at least an oil change on these bars. I love them! They work great on the track and under load!!! No binding, noise or anything... They have turned out great!!

Here it towing up around 18k total

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Glad that you are happy with your results. Your happiness is all that matters. Just as in anything else in this world. Choices may not always be the best, but if it fits your budget and gets done what you want to achieve along with putting a smile on your face, that's all that matters in the end; not what everyone else thinks.

 

[smokedout250]

Glad that you are happy with your results. Your happiness is all that matters. Just as in anything else in this world. Choices may not always be the best, but if it fits your budget and gets done what you want to achieve along with putting a smile on your face, that's all that matters in the end; not what everyone else thinks.

For a 100$ I would do It again and honestly I'm sure the 1000$ bars a re a better system.... But for what mine have done and how they have preformed I can't justify spend that kinda money



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[njjeep]

Tree Trimmer,

What is the best way to figure out what length you need to make the traction bar?

I am getting ready to make some for a 2001 EC/SB with stock suspension and the lift block removed.

I will be using dom tubing and ballistic joints. Should i go with the poly bushing on the frame side and rod end on the axle side or rod end on both?

Thanks

 

[INFRNL]

Tree Trimmer,

What is the best way to figure out what length you need to make the traction bar?

I am getting ready to make some for a 2001 EC/SB with stock suspension and the lift block removed.

I will be using dom tubing and ballistic joints. Should i go with the poly bushing on the frame side and rod end on the axle side or rod end on both?

Thanks

I do not think it matters much as long as you have poly on one side. You probably do not want the heim/johnny style joints on both ends unless its strictly an off road vehicle.
I would say put the poly on the axle side, but it shouldn't matter what side as long as its on one of them.

 

[Tncoalroller88]

what size are the rear axle tubes on out truck ??

 

[Jake]

what size are the rear axle tubes on out truck ??

3.5" iirc

 

[Tree Trimmer]

Tree Trimmer,

What is the best way to figure out what length you need to make the traction bar?

I am getting ready to make some for a 2001 EC/SB with stock suspension and the lift block removed.

I will be using dom tubing and ballistic joints. Should i go with the poly bushing on the frame side and rod end on the axle side or rod end on both?

Thanks

if your going to do it yourself, and you want it done right, and you dont have access to the nice computer programs that will do the figuring and simulating for you, you only can do it the old fashioned way.

make your axle mounts, and make your frame mounts.

mount your axle mounts and mount on the rear of the bar.

hold the front truck mounts up by hand, and the front of the bar by hand. the mount on the end of the bar should not be welded solid at this time. so if you need to shorten the bar, you can just pull out the sleeve, shorten the bar and try again.

while under the truck, looking at the front mount, have someone push down on the rear of the truck. we used 2 pallets full of seed corn and a skid loader. something that will almost bottom the truck out. we set both pallets in, and just used the loader to lift and lower the truck via the reese hitch, with a hitch upside down and a chain. and we made a mock up bar out of a piece of 3/4" threaded rod and two joining nuts. that was alot cheaper to mess up, than a piece of DOM tubing. screwed our poly ends on, and went to town.

the correct length of the bar, is the length of bar that does not move AT ALL, around the front mount. a 1/8" is fine, as your poly bushings will allow for that comfortably, with out additional stress on them. when you look through the holes, they should not move within each other. if they do, you either need to shorten your bar, lengthen it, lower your front mount, raise your front mount, or do something different. its geometry, if you stew on it long enough, you'll figure out what you need to do.

this will allow you to compress the rear of the truck, fully, without the trac bars binding your travel.

most fab shops have software that does all that manual stuff for them. they can input all the correct dimensions they are working with, and it will tell them where the front mount needs to go, based on more variable's than you think, and the length of the center to center of the eyes on the bar needed to achieve that, accurate down to the nearest .001" if they choose.

note i said center to center of the eyes on the bar. that's the important number. your bar length just matters how much thread you want left on your eye's.

two guys both get 72" bars. one bottoms his eyes out in his bar, and ends up with 74" c2c, and one leave his out a few inches and ends up with a 77" c2c. both same length bars, but one guy will bind his, and the other won't. or if the magic number is 75.25" c2c on the eyes, they both could be wrong. this is just hypothetical, but you get my point. bar length is not the number your after. center to center of the eyes is the number your after.

that should at least get you started.

 

[SSpeeDEMONSS]

The "bar" length should be from center to center. My 7'1"(I think that is what I did) are 7'1" from center to center. I can't tell you what it is from the end of the solid bar to the other end.

Garrett

probably getting paid at work to post this from my bionic

 

[whitetailreflex]

Since everyone is on the subject. Does anyone have a cclb with bars. If so wats the length? I'm lookin at mounting the fronts in the same position as the op with the center of the hole 2.75" below the frame. And the rear hole will be directly below the front of the axle 4" below. Just going by wat I'm seeing here it seems about right. Looking to fab up this week. My rough measurements for e2e is about 83".