Oil filter change interval with synthetic oil

[JRLott]

Good to know we don't hate each other, CAT. I'd hate to hate someone and not know I hated them.

The rest is good stuff. I agree that the Amsoil bypass is very fine and much better than no additional filtration...which I have. Based on the apparently biased info we have, the Filtroil setup is better. Does it really matter to 99% of the trucks out there? I'll say no for the reasons you stated about never reaching high mileage and likely never seeing an oil related failure. However, if I were so inclined, I'd pick Jim's kit because he's a sponsor, its better on the paper each manufacturer publishes, and well I'd not be able to keep myself from spending the extra money. However, the next $400 I spend on dependability will have H&S on it and replace a plastic POS.

I have 9,000 on LE8854 with filter change and sample at 5,000, and it is driving me absolutely NUTS waiting another 1,000 miles to get to 10,000 despite the analysis saying the oil was in better shape at 5,000 than the T6 was at the previous change and sample with 5,000 on it.

Why am I running LE and sampling? Like you said...I simply can't help myself. If I wasn't sampling, I'd be running T6 or Mobile 1 and changing at 5,000...for the same reasons.

 

[jimdawg185]

Wow, I posted without reading everything and stepped right into it didn't I...

Cat, you're correct to a degree. But that degree is based on the belief that these engines shouldn't last millions of miles. I believe they should, and can with proactive and predictive maintenance. We have loaders in mines running 1000-1200 hour oil changes with 60,000 hours on them. And climbing. Yes, it's a different engine, but it strikes me as odd that a few thousand hours on a light duty Diesel engine is considered an acceptable life cycle. I can't accept that. And all the evidence points to contamination being the culprit in the short life cycle. Why not run the tightest offline filtration you can. With the most robust oil with an add pack that can help the filtration do its job. It might be considered picky, and neurotic, but to me it's what I do every day on thousands of different machines. And it works.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CATDiezel]

Wow, I posted without reading everything and stepped right into it didn't I...

Cat, you're correct to a degree. But that degree is based on the belief that these engines shouldn't last millions of miles. I believe they should, and can with proactive and predictive maintenance. We have loaders in mines running 1000-1200 hour oil changes with 60,000 hours on them. And climbing. Yes, it's a different engine, but it strikes me as odd that a few thousand hours on a light duty Diesel engine is considered an acceptable life cycle. I can't accept that. And all the evidence points to contamination being the culprit in the short life cycle. Why not run the tightest offline filtration you can. With the most robust oil with an add pack that can help the filtration do its job. It might be considered picky, and neurotic, but to me it's what I do every day on thousands of different machines. And it works.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Economics.

However. I've seen my far and far share of Cat mining dozers and loaders work extreme and long times before a certified rebuild on the original engine with 75k hours on it. No big deal.

Have seen the same slap worn out F350 trucks in the field pushed WELL past 300+ thousand miles and never seen a pressure washer a day in there life. Bulk oil from a 55 gallon drum.

I agree with you Jim. Truly do. But economics comes to play in the equation.

I personally tore down my dad's 5ek38051 serial numbered engine out of a farm truck Pete that regularly pulled over 100,000 lbs near 1 million miles. All he did was change the oil and filter every 12,000 miles. Dump and go. Lots of off road and abuse and solid idling. I can hardly recall the truck shutting off as I was a young man growing up. Same exact truck. Million miles later.... no wear. Liners perfect. Main bearings laughingly perfect.

This is just ONE personal example of watching a truck from birth to 1 million miles. Being the truck is still in the farm fleet it now has 1.5 mill on it and has yet to see so much as nothing more than simple Rotella bulk drum oil changes.

Now for the level you personally are helping people.... that takes extreme dedication from a TRUE fleet maintenence manager to comply with strict orders on service and consistency of records.... and they are out there.


My main point was the length of time an average guy keeps a truck. The failures that wipe out the engine are NOT oil related for the large majority. If an engine is starting to self destruct, filtration is not going to stop it from happening.

I do want to reiterate that I respect your love for oil and passion for helping fleets extend the life of an engine or drive train components. As do I, just not to the same level anymore! To many regulations to give a crap!! Haha

 

[CATDiezel]

New post. Other was too long.

It's certainly not fair to compare a loader engine that is north of 750ci. To a 400 ci engine when the power ratios are opposite of each other.

The build of a 750 to 900ci engine is literally twice the build of a automobile 400ci engine. With the larger being rated at 350hp and 800ftlbs. With a much shorter rpm span. The comparisons are not exactly apples to apples.

A cat engine has a wet liner as thick as my thumb and one rod bearing has enough material to build all the rod bearings in a 6.7L scorpion. Yet it puts out less HP and torque than the Ford engine. (Comparing a loader engine to a pickup engine)

 

[jimdawg185]

Economics.



However. I've seen my far and far share of Cat mining dozers and loaders work extreme and long times before a certified rebuild on the original engine with 75k hours on it. No big deal.



Have seen the same slap worn out F350 trucks in the field pushed WELL past 300+ thousand miles and never seen a pressure washer a day in there life. Bulk oil from a 55 gallon drum.



I agree with you Jim. Truly do. But economics comes to play in the equation.



I personally tore down my dad's 5ek38051 serial numbered engine out of a farm truck Pete that regularly pulled over 100,000 lbs near 1 million miles. All he did was change the oil and filter every 12,000 miles. Dump and go. Lots of off road and abuse and solid idling. I can hardly recall the truck shutting off as I was a young man growing up. Same exact truck. Million miles later.... no wear. Liners perfect. Main bearings laughingly perfect.



This is just ONE personal example of watching a truck from birth to 1 million miles. Being the truck is still in the farm fleet it now has 1.5 mill on it and has yet to see so much as nothing more than simple Rotella bulk drum oil changes.



Now for the level you personally are helping people.... that takes extreme dedication from a TRUE fleet maintenence manager to comply with strict orders on service and consistency of records.... and they are out there.





My main point was the length of time an average guy keeps a truck. The failures that wipe out the engine are NOT oil related for the large majority. If an engine is starting to self destruct, filtration is not going to stop it from happening.

65% of mechanical failures are contamination related. That's a minimum number put out by Dr. Rabinowitz from MIT. And you have a couple of examples that are narrative based, and that's great. I have hundreds and hundreds of examples that bring that reform qualitative to quantitative. And at 1000-1200 hour oci. I'm saving those coal mines millions in downtime. Every time that loader is down for its 250 hour oil change it takes it out of service, costing the company far more money. My average fleet customers have an ROI of 705% when switching to my comprehensive proactive program over cheap bulk oil and short oci. Thats why I'm so successful.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CATDiezel]

65% of mechanical failures are contamination related. That's a minimum number put out by Dr. Rabinowitz from MIT. And you have a couple of examples that are narrative based, and that's great. I have hundreds and hundreds of examples that bring that reform qualitative to quantitative. And at 1000-1200 hour oci. I'm saving those coal mines millions in downtime. Every time that loader is down for its 250 hour oil change it takes it out of service, costing the company far more money. My average fleet customers have an ROI of 705% when switching to my comprehensive proactive program over cheap bulk oil and short oci. Thats why I'm so successful.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Contamination related or not. It's caused by a mechanical failure that is going to show its face and wipe out the engine. It will just be a bit more prolonged. Good oil bad oil or indifferent. I hate to be argumentative but I'm simply not too concerned what Dr whomever from MIT discovered.

A 250hr service on a loader should take roughly 15 minutes. If the mine was wise enough to utilize quick drains with a proper lube truck setup. I promise one thing. That machine gets more slack time than what you realize.

And that's why I'm so successful if we're measuring personal success now...

 

[jimdawg185]

65% of mechanical failures are contamination related. That's a minimum number put out by Dr. Rabinowitz from MIT. And you have a couple of examples that are narrative based, and that's great. I have hundreds and hundreds of examples that bring that reform qualitative to quantitative. And at 1000-1200 hour oci. I'm saving those coal mines millions in downtime. Every time that loader is down for its 250 hour oil change it takes it out of service, costing the company far more money. My average fleet customers have an ROI of 705% when switching to my comprehensive proactive program over cheap bulk oil and short oci. Thats why I'm so successful. I put huge bags of money into corporations pockets. And they pay me very well to do so. I just wish I got a piece of the money I help them make. 2013 my top ten customers made 100 million dollars more directly because of me. I tried to ask for 5%... I was rewarded with a laugh.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jimdawg185]

Contamination related or not. It's caused by a mechanical failure that is going to show its face and wipe out the engine. It will just be a bit more prolonged. Good oil bad oil or indifferent. I hate to be argumentative but I'm simply not too concerned what Dr whomever from MIT discovered.



A 250hr service on a loader should take roughly 15 minutes. If the mine was wise enough to utilize quick drains with a proper lube truck setup. I promise one thing. That machine gets more slack time than what you realize.



And that's why I'm so successful if we're measuring personal success now...

Data is data. My customers have exponentially less downtime, less fuel or electrical consumption, and less labor costs after they switch. And the numbers always pay off. Always. And they reward me for doing so. And I work my ass off to get them there. I'm now being asked to travel the world to do the same by some of the planets largest corporations. You don't have to agree with me, I'll sleep fine. But I refuse to not try and bring my experience to my diesel family.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jimdawg185]

Contamination related or not. It's caused by a mechanical failure that is going to show its face and wipe out the engine. It will just be a bit more prolonged. Good oil bad oil or indifferent. I hate to be argumentative but I'm simply not too concerned what Dr whomever from MIT discovered.



A 250hr service on a loader should take roughly 15 minutes. If the mine was wise enough to utilize quick drains with a proper lube truck setup. I promise one thing. That machine gets more slack time than what you realize.



And that's why I'm so successful if we're measuring personal success now...

15 minutes after you get it to where it needs to go for the service, or the service truck gets to it. Its taken out of service, and that's downtime. The devil is in the details. And those details add up to lots of money fast.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CATDiezel]

Data is data. My customers have exponentially less downtime, less fuel or electrical consumption, and less labor costs after they switch. And the numbers always pay off. Always. And they reward me for doing so. And I work my ass off to get them there. I'm now being asked to travel the world to do the same by some of the planets largest corporations. You don't have to agree with me, I'll sleep fine. But I refuse to not try and bring my experience to my diesel family.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hey. I never said it was bad. Go back and RE-READ instead of diving in next time!!

I'm and end user. Engines worth more than half the fleet of mining equipment. I know what mining equipment is worth. And I have to answer for the slightest failure. And I know how to get the most out of our oil. Simply said. Samples (mind you high quality) tend to not lie.

But as far as a small truck end user. The point originally made was if your going to dump it every 5k then don't waste your money on expensive refined products. Read into that if you can. Your brilliant enough to see that was the point.

 

[CATDiezel]

15 minutes after you get it to where it needs to go for the service, or the service truck gets to it. Its taken out of service, and that's downtime. The devil is in the details. And those details add up to lots of money fast.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Since we're way off subject. That's poor management by not owning redundant equipment. Life expectancy comes with having redundancy rather than running your only machine balls to the walls. Especially affordable of they saved 100 million dollars in Dt. For a machine largly in the neighborhood of 1 mill.

As far as the 700% roi.... you forgot to mention that was a wine factory. Bit different beast! LOL

 

[jimdawg185]

Hey. I never said it was bad. Go back and RE-READ instead of diving in next time!!



I'm and end user. Engines worth more than half the fleet of mining equipment. I know what mining equipment is worth. And I have to answer for the slightest failure. And I know how to get the most out of our oil. Simply said. Samples (mind you high quality) tend to not lie.



But as far as a small truck end user. The point originally made was if your going to dump it every 5k then don't waste your money on expensive refined products. Read into that if you can. Your brilliant enough to see that was the point.

That's a persons preference, I don't have data on short oci and life cycles. But even the best oil is still cheap. I've tried to talk people into safely extending drains with ASTM certified analysis with my oil. And some would rather put great oil in and keep their oci. I'm not going to stop servicing them, or argue because I'm so focused on the money. It's their money, and as long as im honest and give them great service they are getting what they paid for. At least from me. I've even given stuff away to help my customers see value in buying from me. It's my goal to help others make more money.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jimdawg185]

705% is average, Gallo isn't my customer. It just happens to be my average ROI on my top ten customers in one specific year. Granted, my top 4 customers had ROI over 1000% that year. So it gets pulled in that direction.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jimdawg185]

Since we're way off subject. That's poor management by not owning redundant equipment. Life expectancy comes with having redundancy rather than running your only machine balls to the walls. Especially affordable of they saved 100 million dollars in Dt. For a machine largly in the neighborhood of 1 mill.

As far as the 700% roi.... you forgot to mention that was a wine factory. Bit different beast! LOL

100 mill is my top ten customers in one fiscal year. That specific customer won't share the entire savings, just the hours downtime and various costs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jimdawg185]

As far as the 700% roi.... you forgot to mention that was a wine factory. Bit different beast! LOL[/QUOTE]


A quick example.
My good buddy owns a landscaping company. He was going through 35-40 spindles a year. At 75$ each and 3 hour downtime on the lower which averages 50$ that's 125$ per failure.
He bought 1 120 pound keg of 3732, and I have him a free pump. The grease cost 850$. 4 years of 125$ failures would have cost him 17,500$. He has had only 1 failure in the last 4 years. Investment 850$, savings 17,375$. That's just over a 2000% ROI. 705% is pretty low, and would be much higher if I included all my customers. But lots of my ARS customers have huge initial capital costs, and then ROI isn't realized for a decade. Throws my numbers off.
My numbers would look a lot better if I went out farther than a year as well. Most of my larger ROIs hit in the third year with fleets. In power plants it's the first year, as is with manufacturing.but the point isn't less valid, I'm doing a massive economic service for my customers.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CATDiezel]

Jim.

If your product works. I will not disagree.

Matter fact I may myself purchase some of that grease for our huge cooling towers shafts driven fans....

The original point was with a 5000 mile oci it's a bit redundant and excessive to spend $$$$ when $ will suffice. And as far as filtration is concerned. The Motorcraft oil filter seems to be working just fine according to Analysis. However. Even myself enjoy superior filtration and have given thought to the kits multiple times.

 

[jimdawg185]

Jim.

If your product works. I will not disagree.

Matter fact I may myself purchase some of that grease for our huge cooling towers shafts driven fans....

The original point was with a 5000 mile oci it's a bit redundant and excessive to spend $$$$ when $ will suffice. And as far as filtration is concerned. The Motorcraft oil filter seems to be working just fine according to Analysis. However. Even myself enjoy superior filtration and have given thought to the kits multiple times.

Full flow filtration can only work so well because of it's too tight it will raise delta p. Delta p is the enemy of any Lubrication system. Lower pressure and maybe worse, foam formation from the pressure change. Fluid film is in the 1 to 6um range. Those sized particles are what cause most wear, because they fit between the bearing surfaces. Look at this MacPhearson graph, look where the exponential cycles to failure is, it's below 6um.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk