Options for Compounds with a 38R

Blowby

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Pius will be spot on. Good choice on letting him calculate the complete system.



BTW: Who say's your the only one with the latest upgrades?:toast:
 

DocBar

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I think I posted on here that I think I have a boost leak. Well, today I did a WOT run w/ Davids chip in and found one: the IC boot off the compressor housing blew off and scared the chit outta me!! Since I'm going to compounds fairly soon, I think I'll just put it back on instead of buying new ones just yet.
 

DocBar

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Who is doing the fab work for you?
I don't know yet. I hope to keep it simple enough that it can be bent instead of welded together, but all of that is still a work in progress. I'm checking out different set ups and ways of doing the plumbing.

I'm also wondering if a CCV delete to the exhaust is doable. That would be much more preferrable than the standard method.
 

Buffalo444

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Chuckles did the 38/47 combo with 300/200s and did 591 on fuel with minimal smoke and managable egts.

Claimed the ability to tow more then the trucks capacity until it burned down every part of the drive line.

So you're saying BTS, Dana 135, and some beefy effing driveshafts?




Lol yeah I know its an old post, but I'm still looking into the original combo.
 

Charles

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So you're saying BTS, Dana 135, and some beefy effing driveshafts?




Lol yeah I know its an old post, but I'm still looking into the original combo.


Nope....

I have since smoked the bearings out of that axle in our 550. That was with a 38R as a single. A superduty chassis simply isn't going to handle a REAL 300+ continuous horsepower.

I also smoked another ZF6 in that truck as well. I had planned to possibly swap to a fuller 9 speed before the big dana also bit the dust. Scorched black fluid in each with only a few thousand miles on the trans and diff fluids.

Keep it under 300wheel if you're towing. I now have a cooler in addition to the factory cooler on the trans, and some good valvoline oil in the rear with new bearings and I'm really hoping that on this oil change that everything looks better. But after a couple loads of hay there's a definite growl at low speeds.... so I'm not going to be shocked if it's scorched again...

These engines are perfectly suited to pull heavy in a mid-range truck. They are excessive for these little pickup chassis components if you load them up and let them eat.
 

PowerstrokeJunkie

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Thats why the drivetrain from transmission rearward in the international trucks are just huge. the bellhousing adapter on the IH engine i had was stupid big LOL
 

Vader's Fury

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That is why I bought an international chassis to put my 7.3 in. And like Charles was thinking, I am looking at an Eaton 9 or even a 10 speed to transfer the power to the rear.
 

DocBar

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Nope....

I have since smoked the bearings out of that axle in our 550. That was with a 38R as a single. A superduty chassis simply isn't going to handle a REAL 300+ continuous horsepower.

I also smoked another ZF6 in that truck as well. I had planned to possibly swap to a fuller 9 speed before the big dana also bit the dust. Scorched black fluid in each with only a few thousand miles on the trans and diff fluids.

Keep it under 300wheel if you're towing. I now have a cooler in addition to the factory cooler on the trans, and some good valvoline oil in the rear with new bearings and I'm really hoping that on this oil change that everything looks better. But after a couple loads of hay there's a definite growl at low speeds.... so I'm not going to be shocked if it's scorched again...

These engines are perfectly suited to pull heavy in a mid-range truck. They are excessive for these little pickup chassis components if you load them up and let them eat.
Is it possible to limit the torque effectively, through tuning, while maintaining good horsepower to keep this from happening? I'm talking with Matt about this when he tunes my new set up for me. I'd love to be able to keep the truck ~1200 ft/lbs max. I'm not sure how this will affect horsepower throughout the power band, though.
 

Buffalo444

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Nope....

I have since smoked the bearings out of that axle in our 550. That was with a 38R as a single. A superduty chassis simply isn't going to handle a REAL 300+ continuous horsepower.

I also smoked another ZF6 in that truck as well. I had planned to possibly swap to a fuller 9 speed before the big dana also bit the dust. Scorched black fluid in each with only a few thousand miles on the trans and diff fluids.

Keep it under 300wheel if you're towing. I now have a cooler in addition to the factory cooler on the trans, and some good valvoline oil in the rear with new bearings and I'm really hoping that on this oil change that everything looks better. But after a couple loads of hay there's a definite growl at low speeds.... so I'm not going to be shocked if it's scorched again...

These engines are perfectly suited to pull heavy in a mid-range truck. They are excessive for these little pickup chassis components if you load them up and let them eat.

So bump it up to a 650/750, and make sure you have plenty of cooling and temp monitoring for both the axle and transmission?
 

Charles

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Is it possible to limit the torque effectively, through tuning, while maintaining good horsepower to keep this from happening? I'm talking with Matt about this when he tunes my new set up for me. I'd love to be able to keep the truck ~1200 ft/lbs max. I'm not sure how this will affect horsepower throughout the power band, though.


No matter how you slice it, power is what is burning things up at steady-state towing duty. The driveline simply cannot transmit but a finite amount of power without overheating. Increase the rpm and lower the torque and the tooth to tooth pressure would decrease, but bearing and tooth friction would go up because of the rpm and you're right back to square one. Decrease the rpm and increase the torque and bearing and tooth friction comes down with lower rpm, but tooth to tooth and bearing pressure goes up because of the greater torque loads and again, right back to square one unless the power comes down. If there was say a 16% parasitic loss through the driveline... and you were putting 300hp to the ground, then that means you were making 357hp at the crank and 57hp was being converted to heat, sound and vibration through the driveline.

57hp is 42,522watts. Imagine a 45,000watt heater in your trans fluid, blasting your u-joints and your diff fluid, gears and bearings.

And amazingly, the drivetrain seems capable of sustaining it.

Now bump it up to 400rwhp, and that turns into 76hp or 56,696watts of power doing nothing but churning and burning bearings, gears and u-joints.

500rwhp it becomes 95hp, or 70,800watts...


Meanwhile, back at the 200 or so the truck was desgined for, it's only 38hp.

At 500rwhp the parasitic load on the driveline is 2.5 times the design load. As long as you don't stay in the power for too long, nothing will get too hot. You can run your hand over a candle flame quickly with no problems, but if you leave it there for a moment, things get ugly.

Out on the interstate for hour after hour, things get ugly up under a superduty somewhere around ~300 wheel in my experience.
 
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Charles

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So bump it up to a 650/750, and make sure you have plenty of cooling and temp monitoring for both the axle and transmission?


I think a single axle tractor will be in my future if the big dana sh*ts on this 550 again. Then I'll just short-trip the 550 to deliver equipment and use the tractor for hauling hay and long trips with equipment.
 

TyCorr

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I honestly have no idea on any of the questions you asked!!!LOL :gethim:

I decided to go with the GQSSB because I got a good deal on the setup from Freddie and I really liked the idea of having more options if it didn't work out with the compound setup vs. having to do it later if I didn't like the 38R setup.

I had been bouncing questions off of Jason and some others when I realized that there was an astronomically higher chance that my truck would rust to pieces before I ever learned how to properly size and match turbos. So I decided to listen to all these guys and just try to copy and paste a known, proven setup. That led directly to Mike and Pius.

Pius asked me quite a few questions, told me he will have exactly what I want in a few weeks and that is that.

I really wanted to do this on my own, but I just don't have the experience yet. I'll learn it eventually, but why experiment on my DD?

It's also pretty cool that I'll have a close copy of probably the best setup out there, but it'll still be a little bit different due to some upgrades over the years.

I don't blame you. I like to learn as well but if you are counting on this pickup, get it done.
 

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