PCM swap and I am still stumped Grrr!!

[TARM]

I listed the history of the problem with details below. For the main bullet points you can jump down to below the ------- line.

History:

OK so fall of last year I had a issue with my PCM. It ended up tripped the PCM anti theft from PATs because of some hiccup with AutoEnginuity hook up and the chip.

Tried another PCM from another X but it would not work as it was looking for its PATS and tripped the Anti-theft or at least put it in a not start with the fuel pump cut off because it did not find it. Nice isn't it.

Fast forward to today. I decided I was done fooling with PATS and the whole Excursion and its Glow plug module that costs hundreds of dollars etc. I decided to just switch to a Super Duty PCM from the same models years 2000-2001. This would get rid of the GPM and replace it with a GPR.

Good friend sent me PCM model: DPC-422 NKV4 out of a 2000 SD.

Firgued until I got the top engine harness I would unplug the two GPM connectors as its plenty warm out.

**I am still using the Excursion top wiring harness with SD one on the way.

**Brand new TS chip from Matt just to be safe and I burned the old tunes on it.

*** The PATS green connector under the dash by the trans hump ( thanks Dave ( Golfer) for that info) is unplugged.

I key cycled it to on (did not try to start it) and I heard the fuel pumps kick on. This was a good sign. I turned it off. Came back out and key cycled it back on and this time no pumps. !@$@% @$#%&$*^%*$%$@%@#% Come on seriously!!!!!!!

Of course crank it and engine turns over but no start.

I pull out AE and plug it in. I get no connection error for the Ford Enhanced Powertrain Module. I up up the GEMs etc from the pull down menu and it connects right up so I know its not the AE module etc. But in the list it can not connect to the powertrain which means PCM. Of course it can not connect to PATS as I have than unhooked.

This is what it did with my original PCM when I had the issue with the AE unplugging in the middle of data and tripped the anti-theft app kill the fuel pump circuit.


So what the hell is going on?

What did I do wrong?

I recall the first time I key cycled the other PCM the pumps kicked on but as soon as I tried to start it the anti-theft security tripped because it was looking for the PATs so that was no suprise. But this is suppose to be a SD PCM with no PATS. That PCM code matches up with SD not Xs


Honestly this thing is driving me nuts. The whole thing started off a stupid mistake or a one time glitch. I unplugged the AE while it was active with the key in. For whatever reason it caused a signal that PATS did not like and tripped the anti-security. Up till them it was starting and running. Then all of this started. So it was not as if I had some sort of electrical thing going on.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Bullet Points:

* 2001 Excursion with PATS and GPM

* Swapped to a 2000 SD PCM DPC-422 NKV4

* Still using Excurison engine wiring harness but two GPM connectors are unplugged. (Have SD harness on its way with GPR etc.)

* PATS green connector under dash is unplugged.

* Chip installed into PCM. (New TS chip I loaded and confirmed the tunes via burner.)

* First Time I turned key to on fuel pumps kicked on.

* When I key cycled it a second time pumps did not come on and it turns over but no start

* AE will not connect to the PCM but does connect to the GEMs.

* This I think points to anti-theft being tripped in the PCM???


Right now my guess is, no matter what, I have to have someone with a Ford diagnostic system reset the anti-theft no start pump cut off lockout on the PCM.

But I need to know why this is happening? I certainly can not afford to pay ford what I am betting is going to be $75-$100 each time to reset it.

Can I just take the PCM itself down to Ford and can them reset it or do then need it installed in the vehicle?

Could the chip being installed cause this?

Could it be getting a vehicle VIN or other serial number from a different module such as the GEM etc and because they do not match that is tripping the Anti-theft?

I know for a fact others have swapped out the X PCM with SD to get rid of the GPM and PATS stuff. I never saw anything mentioned about tripped the anti-theft.

Would having left the X wiring harness had any play in causing this (again GPM was not connected)?

I need some help guys as I am stumped.


I do not suppose there is anyone with driving distance of Winchester Va that works for Ford that can clear the PCM.

Can of the seasoned guys on here that have seen just about everything help me out with whats going on and what I should do?

I really need to get this thing on the road. Had a stupid teenager (just turned 18) pull out of a stopped turn lane and launch into my wife's sienna minivan as I was passing by in the lane next to him. Tore the drivers side sheetmetal open like a tin can from the front quarter panel all the way thru front and auto sliding door to rear bumper blowing out all the window and mechanisms etc on the way back. Insurance totaled the car. We are left cramming everyone into a Sonata right now which just had the AC go out. It reads like a bad joke, I know. It just should not be this hard to do something so basic and simple. Ugh!?!

 

[Dmstrucks02]

Dam Tarm talk about "if it aint one thing it's another"
Hope someone here can get you fixed up shortly
I'm of no help really but it would seem like the SD pcm would fire it off

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk

 

[backwoodsboy]

Are the pin-outs for the PCM harness the same between like year Excursions and trucks?
With all the funky stuff Ford did on the Excursions it wouldn't surprise me if 2001 Ex's had the 02-03 harness pin-out on them.

 

[isootmypants]

Are the pin-outs for the PCM harness the same between like year Excursions and trucks?
With all the funky stuff Ford did on the Excursions it wouldn't surprise me if 2001 Ex's had the 02-03 harness pin-out on them.

This

 

[PsdPullerJr]

What happens if you cycle the key a few times? Does the pump ever kick back on? What happens if the chip is not in?

 

[TARM]

Have not pulled the chip but have cycled the key a few times. Its just very much like what happened when I tripped the anti theft on the other one.

No on the pin outs. This while a 2001 was built in mid 2000 and others have made the swap without issues. Basically there is no difference in the pinouts than the SD of the same year. I have had to ohm out the pin outs and everyone I have every done used the exact same chart as the SD. Now I agree with the changes in 2002 but unless I am way off that is not the case here.

I am sort of thinking maybe something with a vin or serial code in some module. Maybe even in this PCM I got. I mean if I was a company and wanted to deter criminal theft of PCM I would link up some key code to each vehicle so you could not just go swap them.

If others had not done these same swaps I would think it was something as you guys have said but others on here have done this. I am going to try and dig back thru old posts hopefully someone will see this and have known what the issue is.

I am going to try killing battery power tomorrow and see if it on first keyon kicks the pumps back on and I am going to have the AE hooked up while it does it as once AE is monitoring it does not get kicked out until there is a key cycle or its unhooked or the program is killed. Hopefully I can at least see the engine disable no start code in listed as I did with the other X PCM.

Anyways thanks for the late nighters so far that have giving input. I appreciate any and all effort from you guys trying to help me out.

Will try pulling the chip as well after I pull the grounds.

 

[PsdPullerJr]

I don't think it has anything to do with it but could it possibly be something with the gem module?

 

[isootmypants]

Would the PATS have a PCM code match? Say a PMT1 PCM would not register for a non PMT1 PATS equipped vehicle, even if its not plugged in? And does the idm have anything to do with it?

 

[Hotrodtractor]

Forgive me for asking noob questions.

Do you get the WTS light? Does the PCM even have power going to it? I see a lot of things going on that all revolve around the PCM working and then not working.

 

[GearHeadSales]

Are the tunes Matt sent you for the DPC-452 or DPC-422? Is the wait to start light coming on? If so is it turning off after a few seconds or does it stay illuminated?

 

[co04cobra]

Are the tunes Matt sent you for the DPC-452 or DPC-422? Is the wait to start light coming on? If so is it turning off after a few seconds or does it stay illuminated?

This??


Probably stupid ? but have you went through and checked all fuses?

That PCM has no way of looking for or knowing anything about PATS. The only other module that could "see" a security issue would be the GEM. Have the other guys that did this swap had issues there or changed their GEM?

 

[CSIPSD]

Chelsea's Excursion has the PMT PCM, Superduty motor harness and the PATS is still plugged in. The light in the dash has been removed however...

 

[White Buffalo]

I have the PMT1 PCM in my Excursion as well, stock harness & GPCM, PATS and all still plugged in.

As asked above, do you see the WTS come on? How about the "THEFT" light - is it flashing rapidly when you go to KOEO?

Just a thought - could it be a key issue, do you need to reprogram you chip key?

 

[V-Ref]

Time for a P-Pump conversion!

 

[TARM]

V-ref, Always tempting my darker side. LOL

Joe, WB others,

As I have the PATs unplugged I had thought that killed the security light and the keys needing to be programed. I thought that was all a part of PATs.

Now I went back and reviewed my post which was actually a full year ago where this all started. I got the symptoms some what wrong that happened. The first PCM where it locked PATS the pump would not come on just as it is now. When I tried the other X PCM of a friend same family year etc the pumps would come on and not shut off but in both cases it would not start. The latter I was told in the thread was because the GEM PATS PCM were not sync'd ( same code or something to that effect). Here is the link as I think it may help if some of you would read it. http://powerstrokearmy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34982

My first thought right off the bat is maybe something to do with the TS chip and its programs. If something was wrong with a chip that is freshly installed onto a PCM when you key on it the pumps would possibly still kick on as tests etc have not run yet but then as you either turned to crank or rekey cycled it would now create the dead issue. I have time right now to go out for the rest of day to work on this. I am first going to pull the chip and also pull the grounds off the batteries to clear the PCM. Then try it without the chip installed.

Now looking at what everyone that has done this swap has posted you all have kept your PATS plugged in. Maybe this is some how needed?? What about what WB asked about the keys being programmed is that part of PATS or the GEM/PCM etc? If I plug it in do the keys need to be sync'd even if the PCM is not PATs???

If it is then I should for sure have to resync the keys because of everything I tried the first time last year. I then had tried resync the keys and as it failed they are likley no longer sync'd.

IIRC this is the resync procedure:

Turn the key to on where all the lights are on.

Waited for the fast flashing to go to a slow flash ( about a minute)

Turn the key off and take it out and at least 2 ft away ( out of the cab) for 30-40 seconds.

Put it back in and turned to on.


The SD harness just came in. I am not sure if I should swap that out right now in case it has something to do with it or would I just being adding in new variables of a untested wiring harness etc?

Going thru what Joe and WB have both stated the only common thing is they both have the PATS plugged in.

WB is running a X wiring harness and still plugged in GPCM. The only thing changed was the PCM. PATS still plugged in.

Joe is running a SD harness with a GPR and SD PCM PATS plugged in.

So all I can see is PATS plugged in.

All I can think of as the SD PCM should have no way of knowing anything about the PAT is maybe the GEM and PATs talk to each other?? That of course is if this is even the issue.

 

[TARM]

One question. Is the only connection PATs makes to anything the green connector or are their other wires going to other systems? I was wondering if PATS unplugged could still be effecting things? I can not see how it would effect the fuel pumps though as that is thru the PCM completely correct?

 

[GearHeadSales]

Give me a shout if you have a minute 979-703-7338

 

[GearHeadSales]

With our tunes you will need to have the PATS unplugged. I am pretty sure the files you have are for the DPC-452 computer, not the 422.

 

[TARM]

OK finally finally something in my life that is wrong just this one time ends up being the simplest thing.

It was the chip.

I pulled the battery grounds to clear the PCM just in case.

Cut the duct tape and pulled the chip.

Hooked the Battery back up and it fired right up.

Now here is something I think shows are good these 7.3s are or at least the condition of mine.

It has not been started since 5/08/2013. Confirmed this by the linked thread when it went dead.

It fired up after maybe the 3rd the engine turned over. Like 1.5-2 seconds of cranking time. This is with a very tired slow geared original starter. I would have thought for sure it would have taken a few tires of cranking after all that time.

Now as the fuel pumps were fine the first key cycle and not the second before I got too happy I keyed it on again and the pumps kicked on.


I always choose to do the least amount of cleaning on the contacts. Most of the time I ensure I am not in a rush and I gentle remove only the silicon with nothing more than my finger nail and rubbing with the pad of my finger. I do this as I prefer to have the tightest fit between the chip clip and board contacts.

Matts right hand man Larz (sp?) gave me a call. He saw I was having trouble keeping my head above water and figured he would throw me a life preserver LOL I think he actually has already posted before I finish this. But he confirmed my issue.

What we came up with was it could be the contacts needed a bit more cleaning or I could have had the duct tape on to tight that put a bit of lateral load on the chip and tq it enough to have bad contact between the chip and board.

In my defense the reason I did not even consider the chip at first was because the pump did cycle on the first time and then cut out. If it had not come on from the beginning I MIGHT have thought first to check the chip contact.

Both Matt and Larz confirmed I will need my tunes to be updated before the glow plug will operate correctly again as mu current tunes are for the GPCM not the GPR. Even with the swapped out the SD top engine harness and GPR swapped in. But hell it started.

You guys with your PATS still plugged in you can unplug it completely and it will do away with the whole security light etc.... for good. (without unplugging the console bulb LOL Joe which is likley what I would have done if I was not told about the plug by Dave, Matt, Larz) I assume this also kills the need for key sync etc... None of that stuff. If it even works at all with the non PATS PCM. But I get no security light at all now for sure.

I am working on the PCM contacts and will get it all back together and hopefully all will be GTG.

Again thanks to all you guys for taking the time to help me figure this out. My blood pressure is starting to slowly return to normal and my kids are starting to come out of hiding LOL

 

[White Buffalo]

Sweet! Glad she's up &running.............I hate broken crap!

Always have read good things about the folks at Gearhead......this proves it.