S364.5 on 7.3

[cjfarm111]

Nothing. Its been rebuilt cause Bell said it was worn out with 12,000 miles on it and it has only been ran with synthetic oil????? I have a spooling issue with it and it does not work well for towing because of the lag. Im not saying it a bad turbo but it not working for a tow turbo with the injectors I have. I think the exhaust housing is to big and that is what is causing the lag. But time will tell.

 

[Swaan]

Well the verdict is out. Cjfarm111 had his hfsb looked at and gone over with a micrometer.
To all the people who said the hfsb and basb are the same are WRONG. There was a reason he was having issues with spooling and egts towing. It's called the classic case of wrong charger for his application.
Out of respect for Pius and what he does I'm not going to go into great detail about the actual specs other to say it's a 66mm charger
And everything else about it is bigger then a BASB. Probley a great turbo for 500-600 hp and sled Pulling but not great for towing.

He should be very happy with the 364.5sxe he ordered from barder to replace it.

I guess I could of waited for him to tell everyone but I think I'm more excited about his new turbo then he is.! Lol

 

[liquidlounge]

Well the verdict is out. Cjfarm111 had his hfsb looked at and gone over with a micrometer.
To all the people who said the hfsb and basb are the same are WRONG. There was a reason he was having issues with spooling and egts towing. It's called the classic case of wrong charger for his application.
Out of respect for Pius and what he does I'm not going to go into great detail about the actual specs other to say it's a 66mm charger
And everything else about it is bigger then a BASB. Probley a great turbo for 500-600 hp and sled Pulling but not great for towing.

He should be very happy with the 364.5sxe he ordered from barder to replace it.

I guess I could of waited for him to tell everyone but I think I'm more excited about his new turbo then he is.! Lol

As I said before, its sad when you have vendors that don't even know what they are selling. Which I guess includes anyone selling the mysterious pixie dust HFSB/ BASB. The way I see it, Cj got bamboozled.

 

[liquidlounge]

"Out of respect for Pius and what he does I'm not going to go into great detail about the actual specs other to say it's a 66mm charger"

Why does Pius deserve any more respect than any other vendor? Is it because he doesn't reveal what he is selling? Or be like CJ and led to believe "they just work"? I have more respect for the guy cj is buying from now...Barder was recommending the 364.5 for stage 1.5-2 injector trucks (7.3)right after it came out because its a good fit for that setup.

 

[gnxtc2]

As I said before, its sad when you have vendors that don't even know what they are selling. Which I guess includes anyone selling the mysterious pixie dust HFSB/ BASB. The way I see it, Cj got bamboozled.

I have a BASB and it's a 64.5 wheel as it told to me by Pius. He even went into detail about reproducing the cast wheel as a billet piece and who was testing it.

Could I have taken the exhaust housing and compressor housing off and measured the wheels....yep. But out of respect for Pius and warranty reasons, I didn't. If I was having trouble spooling or smoking issues, both housing would've have been ripped off and the wheels measured.

Could Cj have gotten a mis-built turbo or shipped the wrong turbo...of course. I've gotten shipped the wrong parts and have received someone else's order in the past. All I did was call the vendor and let him know of the issue.

Did Cj ever call Pius and let him know what was going on?

Billy T.
[email protected]

 

[rusty1161]

What makes the 364.5 spool quicker than the 366 if the 364.5 has a 74mm turbine and the 366 has a 73mm turbine and both are running the same size exhaust housing (.91)?

Thanks.

Rusty

 

[Swaan]

What makes the 364.5 spool quicker than the 366 if the 364.5 has a 74mm turbine and the 366 has a 73mm turbine and both are running the same size exhaust housing (.91)?

Thanks.

Rusty

You can get a 364.5 custom built with a 68mm turbine if you like. That's what I did.
The new 73mm turbine on the sxe turbos is actually new design not sure what borg did exactly but it's supposed to respond alot faster then the old 73 turbine.
The fmw compresor wheel itself being smaller 64.5 vs 66 and it's design makes it spool faster then the 66. Also flows better then the cast 66.
Just for further reference the 73 and 74 are the same turbine.
Just like some people call the 467 a 468
Or 364.5 a 65

 

[rusty1161]

You can get a 364.5 custom built with a 68mm turbine if you like. That's what I did.
The new 73mm turbine on the sxe turbos is actually new design not sure what borg did exactly but it's supposed to respond alot faster then the old 73 turbine.
The fmw compresor wheel itself being smaller 64.5 vs 66 and it's design makes it spool faster then the 66. Also flows better then the cast 66.
Just for further reference the 73 and 74 are the same turbine.
Just like some people call the 467 a 468
Or 364.5 a 65

Great info. Thank you.

My 366 has a billet compressor wheel and .91 housing. I have 160/30 injectors and am looking for quicker spool up. Maybe the 364.5 and 68mm turbine is ticket.

Rusty

 

[ja_cain]

You guys are funny. Qssb was probably the T4i equivalent of the BASB. Makes sense that the HFSB has the 66mm compressor as it is marketed as a higher hp supporting turbo than the QSSB and even the BASB. I think they shifted from the QSSB to the BASB to pick up the more efficient exhaust side of the T4 and also because it's more common.

I am definitely interested in the new 364.5sxe though.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[Swaan]

Great info. Thank you.

My 366 has a billet compressor wheel and .91 housing. I have 160/30 injectors and am looking for quicker spool up. Maybe the 364.5 and 68mm turbine is ticket.

Rusty

Yes it would be alot better.
I had same turbo you got now and it was a night and day difference going to the 364.5 over the 366.
Just to clarify I went from a 66/74/.91 to a 64.5/68/1.00
Huge diffrence.

 

[bruce]

Didn't op used to have 250/100's though

 

[cjfarm111]

Cain we're funny? Sooooo just so you all know I'm turbo guru and don't claim to be. I did measure my hfsb and I'm very disappointed in what I got for what I paid for. I'm now moving to a t4 mount from Carson stauffer and a new turbo that I know the specs of. I can't wait to try my new setup. I'm over all the top secret stuff

 

[ja_cain]

I didn't mean the comment to be insulting, I've just been reading about these Bell turbos for a little while and it makes sense that the HSFB would not be the same as the BASB. I just felt like some of the comments implied that these turbos should respond in a similar manner with similar mods and that is definitely not the case with your experience. You confirmed that with your measurements. Thanks a bunch for the info by the way. Also, turbine dimensions and a/r ratios are only part of the story with how things work on the exhaust side there are also open/devided housings and other turbine geometries that come into play.

I am no expert either, but am trying to learn more about this stuff. One thing I would like to know is what are the specific differences between a t4 vs. t4i exhaust side besides the obvious bolt pattern being slightly different and I think the t4i housing is a little wider maybe. They now market the BASB as being easier to spool than it's replacement due to the switch from t4i to t4.

 

[Tim @ P.I.S.]

One of the big issues I see is vendor(s) for bell turbos need to have a clue what they are selling and packaging for their customers. I first hand was told they were all the same just the names changed as the wheel profiles changed. Nothing about diameters at all. So I too was a bit shocked to here of the differences.

 

[IHPowerstroke7.3]

I agree with that. Wheel size spec. can be measured by anyone who has the knowledge to remove a compressor/turbine housing so it doesn't need to be a secret. Other secret squirrel stuff like wheel design, housing I can understand the need to keep hush hush or anyone could replicate the turbo. But realistically, anyone could buy any turbo and measure everything and have it replicated.
Knowing at least compressor/ turbine sizing would make it a lot more friendly for the purchaser to have an understanding of what they are buying and what it will compare to.

 

[cjfarm111]

Well in my experience found the Hfsb to only have a1.15 housing. And for towing heavy that's to big in my opinion. But........ Time will tell. I'm not at all out to bash thee bell turbos but so far they are a huge let down

 

[ja_cain]

Well in my experience found the Hfsb to only have a1.15 housing. And for towing heavy that's to big in my opinion. But........ Time will tell. I'm not at all out to bash thee bell turbos but so far they are a huge let down

*Warning!! Noise Floor About To Be Rasied!*

That is the same dimension for the BASB. BASB has the 64mm compressor side though. That coupled with the same "looser" exhaust side that the HFSB has would mean faster spool due to the lower mass of the compressor. The real question (in my mind) is, does the T4 configuration have an advantage in spool up over the T4i while keeping all of the normal dimensions the same? Hogging the compressor side out to a 66mm just increases the airflow some while shifting the powerband up some. Now if you step your injector size up, you should be able to light the turbo around the same RPM as the BASB with the smaller injectors but make more peak power. I could be way off on my reasoning though.

 

[cjfarm111]

Imo this idea of bigger injectors and fueling blah blah is a joke. What does it mean when when you lean on the skinny pedal and black smoke?

 

[ja_cain]

Imo this idea of bigger injectors and fueling blah blah is a joke. What does it mean when when you lean on the skinny pedal and black smoke?

I hear ya. There is so much more than just more fuel with inadequate air to it. Bigger injectors/nozzles mean more fuel precisely placed to provide more energy to spool the turbo. In addition, you could always use MAP feedback to more precisely deliver the fuel, so you arn't adding more fuel than is necessary.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[jeremiahmercier]

Just to clarify, the BASB is a 1.10, not 1.15

06-6.0l, studded, reworked heads, egr ******, blue spring mod, 6.4 banjos, dummy plugs, stand pipe, upgraded stc fitting, New oil cooler, New ipr, New icp, atlas 40 FICM, stage 1 powermax, and Looney wild, 325/65R18