PowerstrokeJunkie
Active member
I am using an afe big boost
s475/84 400/400's boost/drive
- Thread starter Marty
- Start date
Marty
New member
Jake, no I am just swapping valve covers so I can have my ccv on passenger side. the intake takes 2 minutes to remove/install so I do that to change the oil. Fine by me and gets the ccv smell away from drivers door.
bigjake0524
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Okay! Those intakes are pretty simple to get out of the way.
And the AFE would pry help a bit with some more air flow.
And the AFE would pry help a bit with some more air flow.
Powerstroked162
On Da Juice
I run the AFE 5r filter with a modified stage 2 kit that WOP built. I can pull the minder a little but nowhere near collapsing it or the filter like i was with the 38r/6637 setup.
David N
Active member
Is that filtering it too much? Or is there such a thing. My setup is the 6637/38R and I don't have a filter minder or a backpressure gauge.
Marty
New member
Define collapsing the filter? Is this some sort of phenomenon where it springs back to its original position after?
Serious question as I've not ran into a "collapsed" filter and I have ran 60+ psi for a long time through those filters on s400 chargers. I probably have about 10 setups like you see pictured running around elkton here that I see regularly and they are not collapsed.
Like I stated before. I will test with and without filter. I do not have a filter minder. Those get tossed in the trash. Guess I might have to dig one out and plug her into a 6637 filter. Seemed as though they were considered junk by the general concensus so regardless I think the filter on/off test will show us what we want to see.
Also, no one has responded to my comment about the wastegate controlling the boost so filter on/off should be irrelevant.... correct? Even if it's a restriction and its still opening the gate, then it really wouldn't matter would it? Maybe I am naive, but that's my line of thinking.
Serious question as I've not ran into a "collapsed" filter and I have ran 60+ psi for a long time through those filters on s400 chargers. I probably have about 10 setups like you see pictured running around elkton here that I see regularly and they are not collapsed.
Like I stated before. I will test with and without filter. I do not have a filter minder. Those get tossed in the trash. Guess I might have to dig one out and plug her into a 6637 filter. Seemed as though they were considered junk by the general concensus so regardless I think the filter on/off test will show us what we want to see.
Also, no one has responded to my comment about the wastegate controlling the boost so filter on/off should be irrelevant.... correct? Even if it's a restriction and its still opening the gate, then it really wouldn't matter would it? Maybe I am naive, but that's my line of thinking.
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Powerstroked162
On Da Juice
We just had a good discussion on this in the 6.4 section regarding poor filters altering pressure ratios. While filter minders are not a great tool to tune with, they can give you an idea of where you stand with inlet pressures. I believe Dustin and Mike Haller are building a setup to compare outlet pressure to inlet pressure to give the end see a better idea of how hard the turbo's are working and what things, like filters do to change the turbo speed. Etc.,
Eric Clausen was pulling filter minders closed with his S&B filter and high powers. Haller's dropped the air filter and picked up some decent horsepower. I know that's not really news as some of us drop our filters at the strip, dyno, etc., but when it comes to daily driving these big turbos, a bad filter changes alot, quick. The key is finding out what's happening number wise and what filter is gonna keep you in your desired pressure ratio. That all comes from testing, as you are about to did find out.
As far as collapsing goes, I'll have to see if I still have a pic of the inside of the filter. It actually pulled the paper from the mesh on the inside. It was a joke. Always was collapsing the minder and was replacing filters every oil change just to keep them clean and stay on the safe side. No matter what I did, a good hard pull under load would draw that minder everytime. Switch to the AFE system I have now and the KASB and I can draw the minder a tad but I've yet to pull it shut or eat the filter. I do know that PTSUPERD was eating AFE pro-guard filters with his 42r after a couple hard pulls and some road time. So it seems to change from setup to setup. Take Dillehay's truck for example, with high powers, intake manifold, and a S&B intake kit, lid on, he never had a problem. No filter minder light, an no collapsed filter. Now Eric's truck with the same manifold, turbo's and intake was closing the minder every pull even with the lid off. So it's different, all depends on the truck I guess. Maybe the driver even as well.
David, it's kinda a "filtering" too much deal but really thus because the filter media cannot physically allow the amount of air through that the turbo is asking for. I ran the same setup. I had some housing contact after a period of time. Not shaft play but still contact. Enough to dust the intake tract. That could be from a couple different things collectively though. If I was you, at the least I'd switch to a AFE big boost filter if not a n actual AFE intake kit like a stage 2
think I have pictures of the filter somewhere. I will look.
Eric Clausen was pulling filter minders closed with his S&B filter and high powers. Haller's dropped the air filter and picked up some decent horsepower. I know that's not really news as some of us drop our filters at the strip, dyno, etc., but when it comes to daily driving these big turbos, a bad filter changes alot, quick. The key is finding out what's happening number wise and what filter is gonna keep you in your desired pressure ratio. That all comes from testing, as you are about to did find out.
As far as collapsing goes, I'll have to see if I still have a pic of the inside of the filter. It actually pulled the paper from the mesh on the inside. It was a joke. Always was collapsing the minder and was replacing filters every oil change just to keep them clean and stay on the safe side. No matter what I did, a good hard pull under load would draw that minder everytime. Switch to the AFE system I have now and the KASB and I can draw the minder a tad but I've yet to pull it shut or eat the filter. I do know that PTSUPERD was eating AFE pro-guard filters with his 42r after a couple hard pulls and some road time. So it seems to change from setup to setup. Take Dillehay's truck for example, with high powers, intake manifold, and a S&B intake kit, lid on, he never had a problem. No filter minder light, an no collapsed filter. Now Eric's truck with the same manifold, turbo's and intake was closing the minder every pull even with the lid off. So it's different, all depends on the truck I guess. Maybe the driver even as well.
David, it's kinda a "filtering" too much deal but really thus because the filter media cannot physically allow the amount of air through that the turbo is asking for. I ran the same setup. I had some housing contact after a period of time. Not shaft play but still contact. Enough to dust the intake tract. That could be from a couple different things collectively though. If I was you, at the least I'd switch to a AFE big boost filter if not a n actual AFE intake kit like a stage 2
think I have pictures of the filter somewhere. I will look.
Marty
New member
I'll take a picture of the inside of a 30k mile 6637 I just took off my truck that was in front of my current turbo producing 60+psi and my last turbo as well that went into orbit. Plan to have actual data soon so we'll see. I wonder what's different and causing us to have two vastly different results.
For the record.... all of my recordings are at sea level.
For the record.... all of my recordings are at sea level.
Looking at the inside of the filter doesn't do much.
You need a sensitive map sensor or a guage that reads (in h2o )
That will allow you calculate inlet air pressure and in turn allow for you to calculate an accurate shaft speed based on comp maps
Powerstroked162
On Da Juice
Garrett makes a really nice turbo speed gauge. Comes with a price tag but it's the cats meow
Marty
New member
I guess I am getting caught up with this collapsed filter phenomenon.
What are you 6.4 guys using for a sensor to find this data out?
What are you 6.4 guys using for a sensor to find this data out?
Dieselboy.
New member
What size filters are you guys running ?
Mine is from AFE and has a 5" inlet and is about 12-13" long.
Jake you got a PM
Mine is from AFE and has a 5" inlet and is about 12-13" long.
Jake you got a PM
I make expansion harnesses for the dashdaq that allows two additional map sensors. Originally it was used to read boost between stages of compounding but we ended up using one sensor to read inlet air pressure and found that some air filters were dropping over a pound and a half of inlet pressure.
We also.found that if its sucking in the oringinal filter minder that u probably have issues and if its not your prob fine.
So it may be as simple as going to.Ford and picking up a factory filter minder
Best way would be to find one with readings on the filter minder simple effective and cheap
Marty
New member
One of many, I have never seen a collapsed filter.
This one in particular saw 60 psi the day it was removed. 30k miles on this filter.
I am not arguing whether or not this filter flowed enough air at this point. I'm simply wondering about this collapsed filter phenomenon that I've never experienced.
Dieselboy.
New member
So in my case how would I rig up the filter minder.
I have 5 inch exhaust piping with a filter on one end and a boot on the other.
I have 5 inch exhaust piping with a filter on one end and a boot on the other.
Marty
New member
Seems as though the 6.4 filter minders must be more accurate. I can't recall reading a thread about someone with a 7.3 that actually thought it was worth a squat.
Powerstroked162
On Da Juice
Hooray for you!! Just because you have not experienced something does not make it impossible, or something mystical. It happens, happens to guys with big singles and twins. I believe Dustin crushed a filter with his last setup, Garrett ate one, I have. It happens. Consider your self luky?? Who cares really. What remains is that i honestly believe that filter cannot flow enough air to support that turbo's optimal pressure ratio. That is what this has turned into LOL
Somewhere I have the flow rates for the Tymar style intake. I'll look and see if I can find them tonight
Mass air flow has more to do with the air filter than boost.
Stock 6.4s make 50 psi and don't pull the minder in.
My truck with a 68mm single made 42 psi with no issues
I ran a 76mm precision and the first time I hit 30 psi it sucked the minder in tight as ***
Stock 6.4s make 50 psi and don't pull the minder in.
My truck with a 68mm single made 42 psi with no issues
I ran a 76mm precision and the first time I hit 30 psi it sucked the minder in tight as ***
