STUPID STUPID STUPID

[mjonesjr]

My bet it is well before 2011 is finished. Depeding on how much he drives of course.

He is in Winnipeg. Isn't it touted as the coldest city in the world? Just imagine that copper being in underhood temps of several hundred degrees then sitting in sub-zero temps.

The expanding and contracting of the copper this winter will be enough to crack it. :jawdrop:

 

[Charles]

Tom or whoever is moderating:

Please Do Not Delete Charles' rambling and contradictory posts. He shouldn't get to post misleading information that does damage to others that can't be undone and then have his blunders removed so he can save face. It's obvious he has plenty of time to use the internet for his "research" and knows now he has goofed. Please, Let this Professional respond so others won't be mislead as he was, by the misleading advertising he read and posted.

These types of misleading posts are why other Independent Professionals Like BTS and John Wood do not bother to post anymore. We hope that we can continue to contribute Professional content and comments and won't ever reach the point that we feel it's a waste of our time or "why even bother".
Thank you.

`

It's hard to believe you're serious, but I know you are.


Your premise seems to have something to do with the steel braid not being integral with the sealing tube itself. And you speak about the composition of the inner tube. And then you talk about leaks. So... are the leaks due to tube composition or are you asserting that they are due to inner tube expansion due to insufficient support from the wire? Or both? Or what?

And just exactly how much support does a rubber line require at delivery pump pressure, or as in your example, at the miniscule pressure seen in the cooler lines? You are making absurd statements about the requirements of the lines in question. If we were making up a hose to withstand a working pressure of 1500psi then your comments would actually make sense.


And I already stated the exact instances where I found remarks of the type of aeroquip hose I suggested failing in the half hour or so that I searched the subject using the keywords I listed. A guy with a 17 year old fuel line on an old Cobra that he left sitting for a long while before refiring, and a guy using socketless on an vette, that IMO probably installed the line incorrectly. Besides, in the second case the leak was noticed in the first 50 miles, so it was probably leaking from the word go, which has nothing to do with age-induced cracking of the elastomer anyway.

Some of the rubber fuel lines on my truck are already about a decade old. Some parker, some aeroquip.

According to you this should be seen as an atypical service life from such a hose type. And that is where reality and you part ways on this topic IMO.

I just can't buy what you are selling. Apparently neither can about a bazillion race teams, including those at even the highest levels, otherwise I wouldn't see MILES of Aeroquip startlite hose at every Top Fuel event I go to. Seriously. How do you account for this? They just don't care? Too stupid? Why is the exact type of hose I suggested, that you bill as junk, the EXACT hose type and manufacturer used on so many insanely expensive engines making some of the highest specific power of engine of that type? Why are they using such sh*tty hose?

I want to know why teams with money like that don't buy the best that money can buy? Is the AQP lighter or something? If they're as bad as you're making out then would that offset the chance of spraying NITROMETHANE all over everybody??? Or any other fluid they're moving with it?

I look around and it seems like you're concerns and attitude is misplaced with respect to the aeroquip race hose I suggested using. My observation and experience in no way agrees with anything you have stated. What world do you live on where all of this hose is so horrible, yet everyone uses it for such important things? How do you account for this?

Start making some sense.


On Edit:

Where have I been contradictory?

 

[Irishcream]

so steel lines do not expand and contract? Because if that's the case I will switch to steel. It makes no difference to me. I just want hard lines. It cost me nothing for all the materials and will cost me nothing to use steel. Are you guys arguing against hard lines or the fact that it's copper lines? I would have thought that the steel lines being the same thickness would share the same values as copper.

 

[Tom S]

Just about every hydraulic supply store I go to has them. We'll have to wait and see whether or not they are deemed worthy by Racer before I comment further on them. For all I know using them on lines carrying less than 100psi at less than 200 degrees they may cause your first born to have three legs and one eye because they can't hold 800,000psi working pressure at 4500 degree fluid temperature on the surface of venus or something equally irrelevant.

Hmmm, have seen and used the spiral wrap that the same company makes before but not that kind. The only other one like that I have seen is the fabric kind that Parker sells. This kind looks useful for some stuff.

I hope you reconsider on the copper lines. I would hate to see you have a fuel leak that sprays on a nearly red hot turbo.

 

[Charles]

I called hydraulics shops and what I've been able to find is that apparently age-induced leakage is often seen with cheaper hoses of this type, most often when used with gasoline, and especially when used infrequently, as was the case with the guy with the 17 yr old line I found to begin with.

After much searching I finally found what I would consider valid data on the subject.

Read:

http://www.maxchevy.com/columns/parsons/iii_6-parsons-1.html


Now is this a valid concern for ATF or Diesel fuel? I tend to think both of those fluids to be a 1 on a scale of line damage from 1 to 10 where gasoline and race gas would be a 9 and 10 respectively.

If not, then I would have already replaced my fuel lines twice by now.

 

[Charles]

I'm thinking back to gasser days and my CJ-7 I drove in Highschool I also plumbed with rubber lined stainless braided. That was ~13 or 14 years ago. It's been sitting for years and years and only gets driven maybe once or twice a year now, if that. It doesn't leak anywhere.

The classic bronco I had after that also got rubber lined stainless braid. It has 10 to 12 years on it as well, and like the other, spends most of it's time sitting now. Again, it also has no fuel leaks anywhere.


What are people doing to this line that I'm not, or what kind of line are they buying that I'm not? I always run Aeroquip AQP race hose when I don't run the PTFE lined stuff. But neither of those trucks have the teflon, they are both plumbed with the rubber inner.

Maybe someone can understand my reluctance to throw the stuff under the buss as if it's garbage in a few years when every instance where I've used it, it has lasted 2 to 3 times as long as the service lives being given, and in fact, hasn't yet failed.

And I still have that whole thing about seeing it on every race engine under the sun at event after event to contend with as well.

Things just aren't adding up between the idea that the stuff is junk, and the reality I see.

 

[TyCorr]

Chuck, I think you've provided more than enough to make your claims valid. I would say that its perfectly fine for diesel or atf. Sh!t, hydraulic hose is basically the same damn thing but with neoprene encapsulating the stainless braid. I wouldnt think twice about that stuff if it were under my hood. The friggin hard lines the factory uses for fuel and hpo are twice the danger, imo.

I wonder if you'll get that slushbox from 'them' for testing and R&D?

The line you linked that is manufactured by Eaton Industries, the aeroquip, is what you used for your RR fuel system?

 

[PsRumors]

I wonder how much the ethanol that has started showing up in fuel is playing a part in this. I know in the small engine world it is wreaking havoc on the rubber lines and carburetors, especially those that are not maintained as well as they should be or those that sit alot.

I have used Aeroquip hose for years and until I experience a failure I will continue to use it for years to come.

 

[mjonesjr]

so steel lines do not expand and contract? Because if that's the case I will switch to steel. It makes no difference to me. I just want hard lines. It cost me nothing for all the materials and will cost me nothing to use steel. Are you guys arguing against hard lines or the fact that it's copper lines? I would have thought that the steel lines being the same thickness would share the same values as copper.

You don't understand the properties of the metals. Copper is SOFT, not matter if it is "soft" bendable line or if it is copper "hard" lines. Copper and steel have completely different properties. Steel will expand and contract, but at a MUCH higher and lower temperature than copper will.

Copper itself is a soft metal where steel is a hard metal.

 

[Racer X]

Where do you find that cover material Charles?

Tom,
Charles has now changed the hose type he originally linked.

When I walk through the pits watching Top Fuel cars torn down all I see are aeroquip startlite and the braided race hose I linked on everything.

Charles originally linked automotive grade neoprene flexible fuel hose that is normally installed with hose clamps, not aeroquip startlite hose. Oh Boy…Oh Boy…. Those are 2 completely different hoses…. You won’t find the braided hose you linked on a Top Fuel car. The hose you linked is not real braided race hose required for sanctioned auto racing.

As I originally said and Charles should now understand--his first hose link is plain neoprene covered with stainless steel fabric. See post #4 by bbbxcusion then add the fabric to diesel rated hose and it would be the same.

Go back to Charles' first hose link:To see Charles’ first hose link click here Notice on the page Charles' hose is not rated for any automotive brake line use at all. That means it is for low pressure use only--not sanctioned racing use approved like Top Fuel is... Double oh boy……. It's 1000 psi rating isn't hose burst rating, it is the fittings burst or failure rating. That is misleading marketing of the actual hose’s quality itself. :lame:

That hose will not withstand 1000 psi at all. The fitting was not tested for bursting psi on the actual hose Charles linked. On the page, now click the link for "More Detail" or use the link below I provided Notes: Only rated for 750 psi with lightweight crimp fittings. Charles' linked hose has suddenly lost 250 psi when using "other crimps" –that are commonly called regular hose clamps... LOL Again, they are only telling you the clamps rating……. : )

Details Link --Click here: Charles' original hose's "advertised" rating is now 250 psi lower--lol and ROFL : )

The Protec® cover is a cheaper option to a very thick spiral wound steel cover for actual high pressure hydraulic hoses. It would be appropriate for protecting some hydraulic hoses passing through a metal bulkhead. In automotive terms, a grommet offers the same abrasion protection for wiring going through the firewall into the cab or passengers compartment of a truck or car. The Steel Spiral Cover is for abrasion protection of hydraulic hoses on equipment exposed to sand, rocks, and other stuff that can cut into the hose. Sand is an abrasive material used to make...Sand Paper.
Steel covering is needed on the John Deere 450 Dozer shown in the photo below. The operator has to be protected at all times from scalding hot hydraulic fluid burning him or her if a hose bursts. At high pressure, it can pierce human skin.

Charles, I will give you credit for mentioning the Protec® cover in post #12.

I can't give you any for linking a completely different hose and not being knowledgeable enough to know that hose isn't sanctioned racing quality at all.

Or for having to take the thread and most others you post in, into the gutter with personal insults. That's not professional or courteous to others as you should already know. It would be nice if everyone treated others with respect in forums. Even better: if you discover an error in your previous post, have the integrity and backbone to simply say I was incorrect about that.

In the first sentence of this paragraph I professionally said I disagree without personal insults. Your links are to product ads professionally written by a Madison Avenue marketing firm for SELL! SELL! SELL! anything you can purposes only. :lame:

It’s odd you support an independent builder, but felt the need to criticize another trying to see how much interest there is in a vastly better product.

I didn’t say we would limit it to transmission lines only. Since Powertrains are our main focus, naturally we’d make cooler lines a priority when investing the $ it will take.

Big Companies like Summit are not going to invest $ in better products for older vehicles. Why? The market is shrinking every day as insurance company’s total trucks in collisions when the repair cost exceeds book value. Plus they get paid incentives to total a vehicle. Way off topic--but big companies offset how much pollution they can dump with “pollution credits” they earn by removing older vehicles from the road by scraping them. Antique and classic vehicle owners have tried to rally against pollution credits because the scrapped vehicles must be recycled (crushed). That means less good used spare parts are available when new parts go obsolete and are no longer made.

I’d like to see Diesel Performance use side by side competition events like all other forms of organized racing has. In side by side competition: A little embarrassment because of a dumb mistake that was avoidable and blows an engine or tranny can be an incentive to improve your performance.

Charles, all successful Racers know if they push the car too hard, it will blow up. 99% of car owners know it too. LOL It’s a no brainer. :morons:

If you can’t finish a race because you abuse your vehicle you’ll never Win one.
Successful racers know that, and it appears you do not.

Any fool can blow up engines or burn up transmissions... riest: LOL :morons: LOL

That doesn’t require any skill at all....


Having the skill, experience and knowledge to stay in a race and Win without blowing up does require talent. :thumbup: :toast:

Charles, If you’re blowing something up every 2-6 months, you can’t blame BTS for that…. If that's happening, you'd need to look in a mirror first for someone to blame, then vow to learn from the things that were your mistakes.

If you or anyone else was trying to enter Motor Sports as a driver and blew up the car instead of finishing in the best place that cars setup allowed that day …. Your shot at being a real race driver would be over... Next!!!

There would be plenty of others who would be in line waiting, thrilled to have that once in a lifetime opportunity you didn’t succeed at....

Side by side competition in Diesel Performance would help competitors learn what it takes to become a winner. Good Luck Charles. :toast:

:walkin:

 

[mjonesjr]

Anyone else tired of the bickering?:slap:

 

[TyCorr]

Huh? I dont mean "huh, im overwhelmed by your accumen!" Huh, as in what the he!! are you talking about?

We went from space shuttles to tips on a first successful race day...Im not really interested in the heated hose debate that is brewing here any longer. I will say that your post was infinitely hard to......digest? I see what people meant by you having a unique posting style racer!

 

[TyCorr]

Anyone else tired of the bickering?:slap:

I am far from simple and have a far better than average reading ability but I didnt understand half of what was posted. Some have remarkable ability to put to words their thoughts, others not so much.:lookaround:

 

[Tom S]

OK, I will do this. Close this thread and start a fresh one on the merits of this new style of hose that Racer X is offering.