symptoms of hpop failure??

Charles

Well-known member
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
2,729
Reaction score
47
I understand. Is the gauge on the dash accurate/consistent enough to make this diagnosis?


The "gauge" in the dash is a pressure switch. Depending on the particular one it will switch on in the ~5-7psi range give or take. It should be sufficient enough to determine that your lube oil system is priming.

If it wings up and you don't hear the injectors firing and the starter doesn't start to slow down as high pressure oil builds then there's a high pressure issue.

If the lube oil gauge never comes off the pin, the high pressure system is rendered useless.
 

Tom S

Moderator
Joined
May 20, 2011
Messages
3,365
Reaction score
1
So your thought is that the HPOP reservoir has to see pressure before the HPOP can make pressure? That is not making sense to me. Would it not gravity feed the HPOP? Why do guys that have a bad LPOP get the truck to run briefly when they refill the HPOP reservoir?

I an not disagring with a lot of what was posted just not in agreement on this point but interested in discussion on it.
 

TyCorr

New member
Joined
Jun 23, 2011
Messages
15,461
Reaction score
0
Why do guys that have a bad LPOP get the truck to run briefly when they refill the HPOP reservoir?

Because the oil in the reservoir allows the injectors to fire until it runs out of oil again. Then because the lpop isnt doing its job the hpo system is rendered useless again.
 

Big Bore

Active member
Joined
May 22, 2011
Messages
2,393
Reaction score
4
Location
9000ft in the CO Rockies
Because the oil in the reservoir allows the injectors to fire until it runs out of oil again. Then because the lpop isnt doing its job the hpo system is rendered useless again.


He wasn't actually asking why, his question is why Charles thinks even if the res is full, why it won't fire if there's no LPO. I'm curious too.
 

TyCorr

New member
Joined
Jun 23, 2011
Messages
15,461
Reaction score
0
If you dont have lpo, you arent going to have hpo either. Wont happen...not sure what Im missing... I think lpo is required for the truck to even run.. It makes sense what he explained by listening to the pitch/speed of the starter change as the pressure builds first in lpo then the starter will labor and consequently slow down when hpo begins to build.
 

SkySki Jason

New member
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Messages
229
Reaction score
0
Location
N. GA Mountains
If you dont have lpo, you arent going to have hpo either. Wont happen...not sure what Im missing... I think lpo is required for the truck to even run.. It makes sense what he explained by listening to the pitch/speed of the starter change as the pressure builds first in lpo then the starter will labor and consequently slow down when hpo begins to build.

I am trying to fill in the blanks here... Perhaps LPOP moves enough oil to fill HPO res. - but not enough to 'push' it into HPOP???

I was also thinking if the HPO res. was full - the HPOP would use that oil to fire the injectors, but the res. would be low if LPOP wasn't workin. Is this all-of-a-sudden no-start a common failure mode of LPOP??

Thanks y'all - still learnin' here.......

The "gauge" in the dash is a pressure switch. Depending on the particular one it will switch on in the ~5-7psi range give or take. It should be sufficient enough to determine that your lube oil system is priming.

Thanks Charles, I never really studied the dash gauges while cranking - didn't realize that can be a good diagnostic tool! :thumbsup:
 

Charles

Well-known member
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
2,729
Reaction score
47
So your thought is that the HPOP reservoir has to see pressure before the HPOP can make pressure? That is not making sense to me. Would it not gravity feed the HPOP? Why do guys that have a bad LPOP get the truck to run briefly when they refill the HPOP reservoir?

I an not disagring with a lot of what was posted just not in agreement on this point but interested in discussion on it.


If the lube oil system is functioning, then yes, the high pressure system can fire off of the non-pressurized oil in the reservoir and then run the truck long enough on the oil in the res for the lube oil pump to catch up and refill and pressurize the reservoir before the pump sucks it dry.

This is obviously not the case for this guy though, as he already stated the truck to fire up, then die a few moments later. That means that the reservoir is being pumped out by the high pressure pump and the lube oil pump is not replenishing it. The high pressure pump runs dry and the truck dies before the lube oil pump primes and refills the res.

Once this has happened the high pressure system is then rendered useless until you see lube oil pressure on the dash again, then while cranking usually within 1 to 2 seconds of finally seeing lube oil pressure you would see high pressure take off and the truck would fire and run ragged for 2 or 3 seconds before smoothing out again.



To re-itterate again...

On a properly functioning truck, with a filled reservoir... if you crank the truck the high pressure pump will begin pressurizing the heads and fire the truck before any pressure is acheived in the res by the lube oil pump, then a moment or so after the truck fires you will see lube oil pressure come up on the dash gauge.

In that case yes..... high pressure will happen without lube pressure, as the res is full and the high pressure pump will run off that volume while the lube pump primes.

However.... once the res is empty and the trucks dies out, the high pressure pump no longer has this option. It's running dry. At this point, there must first be lube oil pressure before high pressure. This is because the res will not fill slowly enough for the pump to pick up oil before pressure is reached in the res. Once the lube pump primes the lube oil will fill that res nearly immediately, and the pressure will come up before the high pressure system can refill itself and purge the air. As I said, usually takes 1 to 2 seconds after seeing lube oil before you see the high pressure gauge jump up and the truck fire off.

No different than what happens after an injector swap. Crank, crank, crank, crank, crank, crank then bing.... there goes lube oil.... then one-one-thousand, two-one-thou..... bing.... there goes high pressure and ROMP..... it comes to life.
 

SkySki Jason

New member
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Messages
229
Reaction score
0
Location
N. GA Mountains
That means that the reservoir is being pumped out by the high pressure pump and the lube oil pump is not replenishing it. The high pressure pump runs dry and the truck dies before the lube oil pump primes and refills the res.

Thanks for your patience! I swear the more I learn sometimes the dummer I feel.. :morons:

So, if LPOP is the OP's problem - he should have a dry reservoir when truck shuts down right? Maybe a low res. or crappy HPO pressure if LPOP is 'weak'??
 

lsmith33

New member
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Messages
149
Reaction score
0
Location
Katy, TX
ok well i pulled the ipr out cleaned put back. still no start but it is showin oil pressure on the dash now. so now what??
 

Charles

Well-known member
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
2,729
Reaction score
47
ok well i pulled the ipr out cleaned put back. still no start but it is showin oil pressure on the dash now. so now what??

Unplug the ICP sensor (top front of driver's side head) and leave the 3 terminal connector dangling and crank the truck over. If it still doesn't fire and you've got lube oil on the dash gauge then you've likely got a high pressure system issue.

If it does fire, then the ICP sensor may be bad, or the truck is just baaaaaarely under 500psi and the PCM won't command a firing cycle.

If it still won't fire with the ICP sensor unplugged and the lube oil gauge registering pressure then you'll need to start another sequence of checks that you can cross when/if you get there.
 

lsmith33

New member
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Messages
149
Reaction score
0
Location
Katy, TX
still no start with the icp unplugged. im getting a working hpop tonight so ima give that a shot.
 

Charles

Well-known member
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
2,729
Reaction score
47
well im getting a working hpop tonight so ima give that a shot.


Before you do any of that, make sure you unplug the ICP sensor and crank it over.

Secondly, you could have a worn lower poppet seat pissing all your oil away... or split upper O-ring.
 

lsmith33

New member
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Messages
149
Reaction score
0
Location
Katy, TX
nevermind gotcha. still no start on with icp unplugged. all injectors are remans with fresh orings. less than a thousand miles on em.
 

Tom S

Moderator
Joined
May 20, 2011
Messages
3,365
Reaction score
1
It is time to do what it takes to ensure you are building enough HP oil to start the truck.
 

lsmith33

New member
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Messages
149
Reaction score
0
Location
Katy, TX
well i got another good working 17* hpop so im goin to be putting it in tonight an see if that'll work.
 

lsmith33

New member
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Messages
149
Reaction score
0
Location
Katy, TX
It is time to do what it takes to ensure you are building enough HP oil to start the truck.
know working hpop in the truck now still no start. the gauge is showin pressure on the dash. the hpop res is still full after crankin on it an it is cycleing oil cuz the fresh oil i put in the res is now so clean now. im lost witht his damn truck now. where do i go from here
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Tom S

Moderator
Joined
May 20, 2011
Messages
3,365
Reaction score
1
I have bounced across a few of these thread so hopefully I remember yours correctly.

It is time to see if the truck is building the HP oil to start. That means a scan tool or a liquid filled 5000psi gauge with a hose set up to connect to the head. If you look in the library and read through the HPOP guide that will help you to understand how the system works.

Tom
 

Charles

Well-known member
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
2,729
Reaction score
47
Injectors....

You've probably got one pissing, or you cut an o-ring installing and it's popped.

Your high pressure pump can't build pressure with the leak. Yank the valve covers and with someone cranking it over look for an injector with oil gurgling out the ejection spout or up around the base.

A scan tool will also verify the lack of oil pressure as well as verify the IPR duty cycle to ensure that the PCM is commanding pressure.
 

Latest posts

Members online

Top