Transmission issue

4duggan · Aug 19, 2011

Awsome Info here , Thanks .

genuineford · Aug 19, 2011

Thank you for all your help so far. You can bet that if I lived closer I would just bring it in to you. I would take it to a local trans shop but there ate none close that I trust. I read you post a few times and think I finally understood what you wanted me to do. The only thing is the trans is acting different now. Before it was slipping on the 2-3 shift and now it isc not doing that but it will not shift unless you let out of it. I took a video of what it is doing now, maybe that will help out. When the trans finally shifted I was at wot.

On edit I was still into the throttle when it shifted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OD4fDAXsCkY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Racer X · Aug 19, 2011

genuineford said:
Thank you for all your help so far. You can bet that if I lived closer I would just bring it in to you. I would take it to a local trans shop but there ate none close that I trust. I read you post a few times and think I finally understood what you wanted me to do. The only thing is the trans is acting different now. Before it was slipping on the 2-3 shift and now it isc not doing that but it will not shift unless you let out of it. I took a video of what it is doing now, maybe that will help out. When the trans finally shifted I was at wot.

On edit I was still into the throttle when it shifted.

I don't know what axle ratio you have which would help. Or if you completely released the throttle when it finally shifted, or just backed off of it some. If you kept filming and driving after it finally shifted, I'd know more.

I'm assuming there still are no codes.

So, from the video only, I see a clean 1 to 2 shift with TCC lock. Then right before 5000 r.p.m. some possible slipping followed by an immediate shift. If you just backed off the throttle slightly to 65 mph--it's likely third gear was missed completely and the shift was into 4th gear (Overdrive) with TCC lock up. If you completely released the throttle after the shift, you definitely missed third gear and the shift was into OD.
Video captures a fixed amount of frames per second. It's less than you can perceive with your eyes and other senses. The video can't tell me if there was slip or bind up right before the shift for sure. The audio couldn't either, the sound of air rushing into or past the cab drowned out the sound too much before the shift. It was louder then your engine after the shift until the video ended. The video did tell me gear 2 is in good shape right now.

If you want to do it again: after it finally shifts, maintain 65 mph with throttle for 10 seconds. Then while keeping the same throttle push the OD cancel button. See what happens...

,

genuineford · Aug 19, 2011

I can do that but the earliest I can will be Sunday. We are out of town now.

genuineford · Aug 19, 2011

Oh it is a 4:10 gear ratio with 35 inch tires and the speedo is corrected for the larger tires

genuineford · Aug 23, 2011

Alright I got another couple videos how you wanted. When I ran it it would not shift out of second gear until I let off the throttle. I tried it twice just to make sure. In the videos you will see that I started from a stop and accelerated and had the truck at wot in second gear. I believe what was happening when it reached the rev limiter is that the torque converter unlocked and it would bounce off the rev limiter. I am not completely sure that is what was happening as I was trying to concentrate on driving and videoing. Here are the videos hopefully they will help you make a diagnosis on what is going on. I appreciate all the help you have given me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRxYrUFD3f4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycL8Ya_6C40

Racer X · Aug 23, 2011

Ok, I do see something in these last 2 videos. Let's go to PM to verify it.

genuineford · Aug 24, 2011

I just wanted to thank Racer X one more time. We had a good talk today on the phone and I think we figured out what the issue is. I am going to pull apart one of these days and see if I can find the problem.

Tom S · Aug 24, 2011

Old 460 did not sound bad in those. So can you share the possible cause?

genuineford · Aug 24, 2011

Thanks Tom it had Doug Thorley headers on it and a 4 inch exhaust.

Racer X is thinking it is a stuck valve in the accumulator body.

zilla68 · Aug 25, 2011

well pull it apart and let us know man, waiting sucks! lol

great posts guys, great info.

genuineford · Aug 25, 2011

The plan is to tear into it tomorrow.

genuineford · Sep 1, 2011

Well I took the pan off today. I pulled all of the valves out of accumulator body. None of them were stuck to the point I couldn't get them out. One of them had a little gunk on it. I am going to clean it up and put it back together sometime soon. I hope that takes care of the issue but nothing was extremely obviously wrong.

Racer X · Sep 6, 2011

genuineford said:
Well I took the pan off today. I pulled all of the valves out of accumulator body. None of them were stuck to the point I couldn't get them out. One of them had a little gunk on it. I am going to clean it up and put it back together sometime soon. I hope that takes care of the issue but nothing was extremely obviously wrong.

Steve,
"None were stuck to the point I couldn't get them out"--Sounds like they didn't just slide out. They should.

When you take any of the valve bodies apart, there is no way to see how well valves move when under the force of pressured fluid. Pressure comes from different directions through the multiple passages you can see in the back of your valve body. Some is balance pressure, that's how hydraulics work. Also once metal is heated to normal fluid operating temperature, it changes shape slightly...

If you were to remove all valve bodys, you'd be looking at 1/2 of the V.B.'s hydraulic system that makes up them work. The other half is cast into the case. Hydraulics and automatic transmissions would be easy if they had valves that simply opened and closed like engines do. They don't and can't to function. That's why automatic transmissions are a specialty field.

If you add any performance modifications, they affect the transmission by changing sensor values that determine transmission pressures by electronic control. Then transmissions become a highly specialized field local rebuilders usually have no experience with.

Steve,
If you want to be thorough, see loose bolts mentioned in my post #13 and #15 by Tom S. To check those hollow bolts for proper torque (tightness) you must pull everything, deal with check balls and a spring falling out and know where to put them back in, and not lose any. Also you'll need replacement gaskets and should replace the filter in the separator plate or clean it. If you do that, make sure you have everything needed beforehand.
All the best,
Racer

Tom S · Sep 6, 2011

Is it possible/adviseable to just send in the valve body to be gone through?

genuineford · Sep 6, 2011

I was just out for a test drive with the truck. I had actually reassembled everything last night but did not have time for a test drive. All I did was pull apart the the valves in the accumulator body, clean them up with brake clean and reassemble. The transmission is shifting the way it should now. The hard shifts are not there like they were before so apparently there was crap building up in the valves before I bought it. I would like to thank racerx for all the help and the talk on the phone the other day. It made it so I didn't have to spend any more money on this fix other than a new trans filter and fluid.

Tom, as far as sending it in racerx said that he had some core ones there that he would sell or he had performance ones that had been gone through and rebuilt already that he sold.

Racer X · Sep 6, 2011

genuineford said:
I was just out for a test drive with the truck. I had actually reassembled everything last night but did not have time for a test drive. All I did was pull apart the the valves in the accumulator body, clean them up with brake clean and reassemble. The transmission is shifting the way it should now. The hard shifts are not there like they were before so apparently there was crap building up in the valves before I bought it. I would like to thank racerx for all the help and the talk on the phone the other day. It made it so I didn't have to spend any more money on this fix other than a new trans filter and fluid.

Tom, as far as sending it in racerx said that he had some core ones there that he would sell or he had performance ones that had been gone through and rebuilt already that he sold.

That's great news Steve. I remember when we talked this truck wasn't something you were sure you'd keep so a custom body wasn't on a list of improvements for it.
The key board diagnostics we used even with video and more input from a phone call is like using stone tools and bear skins compared to the diagnostic equipment needed to positively isolate the cause of a transmission problem. LOL

Looks like experience solving transmission problems made it possible this time.

Thanks for posting the results! :rockon:

genuineford · Sep 6, 2011

Racer X said:
That's great news Steve. I remember when we talked this truck wasn't something you were sure you'd keep so a custom body wasn't on a list of improvements for it.
The key board diagnostics we used even with video and more input from a phone call is like using stone tools and bear skins compared to the diagnostic equipment needed to positively isolate the cause of a transmission problem. LOL
Looks like experience solving transmission problems made it possible this time. Thanks for posting the results! :rockon:

I was very happy when I took it for a ride and gave it some throttle going through the gears and it shifted correctly.