Truck home from Ford and say I need new engine...

[forcefed6.4ford]

Not sure if serious....

 

[Stroked777]

Mine starting doing the same thing but it was CCV mod causing oil not to drain from turbos and running out the exhaust. Took off the mod and no smoke.

 

[drunk on diesel]

Not sure if serious....

OEM setup puts a vacuum on the crank case... CCV mod does not. If the rings have some wear and there's more blowby, you'll get positive crankcase pressure, and as the oil draining from the turbos has zero, it makes it harder to drain, and the oil can back up in the turbos

not a phenomenon that's new to 6.4's

 

[Stroked777]

I have never heard of that. I'm trying to picture it in my head

Edit: I see what your saying now.

 

[Dzchey21]

Could oil be blowing past the rings and out the exhaust?

Edit: being blown past the rings is the wrong choice of words. Can't the oil be coming from the piston area as well

Thats basically "blowby" which can be seen by pulling the oil fill. It takes a ton of blowby on a diesel to translate to actual smoke out the exhaust because the intake isnt under a vacuum in most situations (regens are a different story) because of a throttle plate.

turbos.

I agree one way or the other.

Mine starting doing the same thing but it was CCV mod causing oil not to drain from turbos and running out the exhaust. Took off the mod and no smoke.

OEM setup puts a vacuum on the crank case... CCV mod does not. If the rings have some wear and there's more blowby, you'll get positive crankcase pressure, and as the oil draining from the turbos has zero, it makes it harder to drain, and the oil can back up in the turbos

not a phenomenon that's new to 6.4's

Meh, i agree with the logic but the turbos should have no issues with oil drain if everything is working like it should. Either you have a turbo seal on its way out. Or you have high crankcase pressure anyway and its just masked by the turbos ability to pull that in the intake.

 

[rrod]

Thats basically "blowby" which can be seen by pulling the oil fill. It takes a ton of blowby on a diesel to translate to actual smoke out the exhaust because the intake isnt under a vacuum in most situations (regens are a different story) because of a throttle plate.



I agree one way or the other.







Meh, i agree with the logic but the turbos should have no issues with oil drain if everything is working like it should. Either you have a turbo seal on its way out. Or you have high crankcase pressure anyway and its just masked by the turbos ability to pull that in the intake.

Sounds like you know a little about this subject. I don't really know if 20 in is excessive blowby. When you see these videos of 6.4L blowby they look pretty close to mine and some even have more, from the looks of it.
I know the dealer is not always correct and I just can't justify them saying I need a new engine because of blow-by.

So far on this experience this is what I have experienced, which by the way this experience is all because my original concern was light haze smoke coming from exhaust , thinking it was a turbo-seal:

Mechanic 1) one injector has slight imbalance which indicates cylinder wear, also there is metal in your oil. Engine is on it's way out. Need to put factory exhaust pipe back on to try and get it covered by warranty. Warranty denied due to no real evidence (thankfully) Factory pipe stopped the smoking due to the DPF filter.

Mechanic 2) ran a bunch of tests, looked at oil said it was good and can't really determine anything wrong at this time because the truck seemed mechanically sound

Ford) injectors came back in spec, all cylinders have even compression indicating even wear which is why I don't notice it running any different and also why there is no codes?? crankcase pressure at 20in instead of 10in so that was the speculation why I need and engine from them

Blackstone report) no concern of metal, no fuel in oil or antifreeze and came back with good results.

I'm shocked at what's going on here.

 

[SEABEE08FX4]

The 6.4 has a lot of blow by even when they came right off the show room floor. Oil in the down pipe is most likely a bad turbo seal. Get the turbos replaced or rebuilt, if the problem is still there then you know its something bigger. But if not you just saved a ton of cash.

 

[drunk on diesel]

that's my gut instinct on this one

 

[rrod]

The 6.4 has a lot of blow by even when they came right off the show room floor. Oil in the down pipe is most likely a bad turbo seal. Get the turbos replaced or rebuilt, if the problem is still there then you know its something bigger. But if not you just saved a ton of cash.

I like saving cash especially on this truck!!

that's my gut instinct on this one

What is your gut instinct?? The turbo seals going bad?

 

[groove]

Or possibly a cracked ring. My engine had 3 cracked rings....lots of oil in the downpipe.
However, that's fairly rare, so I would look at the turbos first. Much more likely.

 

[sonic blue l]

A relative compression test and relative power balance are just that, relative to one another. So if the cylinders are worn evenly a relative compression test will pass. If all injectors are contributing the same, they will show even.

Now max spec of crankcase pressure is 10" h2o. Next step is to verify if it's a base engine concern, which would be a manual compression test. Now if that passes then you isolate the turbos, aka run truck so there is no exhaust pressure teaching the turbos. As if you have bad turbo seals then the exhaust pressure will drive crankcase pressure up. Now let's say you have 20" h2o, run the truck with turbos isolated and still have 10" h2o. Well now you had high crankcase pressure which caused the turbo seals to fail in the first place .

So bottom line is proper diag does not just mean throw turbos on it as you have to determine why the turbo seals failed in the first place.

Problem is, to do proper diag is not cheap. I actually jus worked on a truck with a similar situation. 20" h2o, manual compression down some, but still aceptable. Isolate turbos and crankcase pressure dropped to 10". Authorized to remove valve covers and worn rocker arms. Vehicle was not well maintained so customer decided to have truck reassembled and truck to auction. (Rocker arms can go plenty of miles and hrs without wear if the truck is properly maintained, even with 100% emission components intact)

 

[drunk on diesel]

I believe he just got this truck recently. Excessive idle/regen will kill turbos. How many miles on the truck? how many engine hours?

 

[sonic blue l]

Just to add I've seen plenty of trucks with varying mileage and engine problems. Doesnt matter what km if it was not maintained. My truck for example has quite a bit of hours but the previous owner did oil changes every 100 hrs = 0 rocker arm wear. (All emission components intact). Yet I've seen others with 1/4 the mileage and hrs with rocker arms worn off. Also revving the **** out of them will kill lifters. 6.4s don't need to **** at 4g, especially if you like having your lifters to keep rolling, instead of hammering the **** out of the needle bearings.

 

[sonic blue l]

Lol, looks like I need to watch the potty mouth, although there was some unneeded sensor ship.

 

[sonic blue l]

Basically oil changes should be done 8,000 km (5,000 miles) or ever 150 engine hours. (Which ever comes first).
This will equal rocker arms that love you and a 6.4 that should last, with proper cooling system and fuel system maintenance of course. Or just us an old 5.4 f150 as your daily beater so that the diesel maintenance doesn't put you in the poor house.

 

[drunk on diesel]

don't worry about potty mouth, there's little asterisks to take care of that ****!

if he has no history on the truck, it's tough to diagnose what caused it. without seeing the truck, it's tough to diag.

personally, I would get the filter off so that you don't poison it with oil, and run it some more and watch oil level. If oil level continues to go down, it's pretty much gotta be the turbos

and don't fall into the trap of replacing the turbo that feels like it has the most play. if you're going to have the cab up, replace both and roll out.

 

[sonic blue l]

The next step would be a manual compression test, if the relative passed and showed the same after a few tries, then realistically you could get away with only doing one cylinder on each bank. (Help keep costs down)

If the op doesn't know, basically a relative compression test is the scan tool monitoring crankshaft speed while the engine is cranked over (without running) thus a low compression cylinder will cause a speed increase in the crankshaft). This is why it's called relative as it only compares the cylinders to one another, but does not actually tell you what the compression is. This is why you can have a worn out/dusted engine that will pass a relative compression test. Now have a hole in a piston, damaged valves, broken rocker arm , etc and it will flag that cylinder. (Well in theory as I've had it pick the wrong cylinder before, but that's not that's not really the point as a failure of relative just means one should perfom a manual test to verify, just like how high crankcase pressure needs to be verified with a manual compression to either condem or rule out base engine)

 

[sonic blue l]

Problem with that is if it's the intake side turbo seal it could run away. If I suspected turbo(s) I'd check the lower charge air cooler for excessive amounts of oil. If it runs out that is bad, now if you live in a high humidity area don't be fooled with the water that runs out that us dark and oily. (Looks like oil, but it's thin like water)

And crack the downpipe or look for oil seapage at the downpipe. If the dpf gets flooded with oil, you can get flames if it goes into regen.

 

[drunk on diesel]

original complaint was what looked like oil smoke... truck ran fine, no puffing out the oil fill as to indicate a holed piston, damaged valves, rocker arm, etc.

while I'm sure he appreciates the start to finish diagnosis procedure of every possible issue on the 6.4, we're really trying to help nail down what his specific issue is

 

[sonic blue l]

what has to be determined is why is his crank case pressure is double that of max spec. So max spec is 10" h2o, he's at 20" h2o. Max spec is not the normal. max spec of 10 is high to begin with.

there are specific diagnostic procedures for a reason. The next step after high crankcase pressure is a manual compression test. if you wish to " nail down the specific issue " you follow procedures, otherwise your guessing.

for example if every one tells the guy to throw turbos on it and he has an engine that's dusted and has high crankcase pressure, where do you think that " new " turbo will be in a month?

Or he takes a chance, throws turbos on it, does a retest for crankcase pressure and its in spec. well then he lucked out. guessing is a gamble approach.

If the guy is here to find out what the readings from ford are, and the proper procedure are, I told him. Now if he wants to gamble from what guys on the internet say and throw turbos at it. well best of luck.

if he wants to gamble and replace the turbos, why not run the truck with the turbo's off. yes, ford has a tool for that, and yes they have a procedure to do just that for this concern. If any ford diesel tech does not know that, then they are morons.