Tuning 101 - Thread Merged with Injector Posts

[Charles]

oke:

Who is this? Cody swore off the forums years ago..:lookaround:
oke: Just funnin' with you man.

Is that one of the smart asses that can run their mouth all day and never explain why my template could not control the transmission in my truck? If so, that explains the prick attitude. If you want to remain part of the problem then don't type.

Ever notice how some people are just that sharp and useless type?

If you're not one of dumb and dumber playing phone jockey they my appology. Just fix the prick attitude with no contribution in that case.

 

[Izzybird]

The real Cody is pretty dang sharp, but usually short and irritated with responses. I shoulda kept my typers shut, but I couldn't resist. I do hope this thread keeps rolling, tried before but they always seem to Peter out.

 

[Charles]

The real Cody is pretty dang sharp, but usually short and irritated with responses. I shoulda kept my typers shut, but I couldn't resist. I do hope this thread keeps rolling, tried before but they always seem to Peter out.

Right now it is in fact petering out because nobody can send an email, phone, carrier pigeon or smoke signal to a man more than willing to set up the file sharing. I'm not calling the man for a fourth day, on Christmas Eve to again ask for this.

The absolutely dumbest, lazy ass sh*t stops the best progress, time and time again.

As I burn through Influenza A.... I find that my tolerance for just about everything is vanishing. And I don't start with a whole lot.


*** it..... somebody set up an offsite file storage. I'm over it. I can't have ***ups steer this problem anymore.

Anybody who wants to..... set up SOME way to easily share .bin files and link them back here. If that won't work, then set it up somewhere ELSE... and we will go THERE!

 

[m j]

actually I made them in the field on my mobile device and it automatically backs them up on my PCs. pretty much impossible to lose them.
I can share the links to anyone on the web (the architects and consultants seem to like a huge image library over coming to the jobsite)

you arent the first ludite I have to deal with re: dropbox fears.

what I do find odd is that this is at least the third powerstroke forum you have had to join yet you think it is more likely then another site to survive the internet disappearing act... you must be new to the web??
the trick is to have someone keep copies of this info in more then one spot to be able to re-up it to the next filesharing scheme of the week. that or it goes the way of webshots.

eventually the owners of this site will sell to Autoguide like the rest of the internet has

 

[Charles]

actually I made them in the field on my mobile device and it automatically backs them up on my PCs. pretty much impossible to lose them.
I can share the links to anyone on the web (the architects and consultants seem to like a huge image library over coming to the jobsite)

You missed the whole point.... you made the files and uploaded them! What you do NOT have on your PC are everyone else's files..... because for one... it's physically impossible. They would not FIT! Hence the whole point of having a filesharing server in the first place (slaps forehead).

I'm reminded of Dr Evil...... you know..... you just don't get it.... do you Scott....

lol.


As for Architects, I wear that hat about 33% of my time. I'm the one who drafts and disperses files for our office, and fixes 80% of those working under the scheme you describe above. Do you know how many days I have lost with a smart ass like you trying to send me a damn set of plans via dropbox??? The link expired, the link was not to ME..... the link was forwarded, making it invalid, blah, blah, blah, monday, tuesday, wednesday, thursday, over and over again. Now sometimes I get dropbox links that work flawlessly. And that accounts for about 20% of the cases!

Of about 60% of the cases, the damn job is so small that if everybody could stop trying to see who could piss the farthest could just simmer down on the freakin 1200 dpi document resolutions and such, the whole damn set easily fits into a single, multi-sheet PDF that can be EMAILED!!!

If I had 5 dollars for every time I have painstakingly received a dropbox of crap after days of bs, and then immediately combined all the bazillion files into a single multi-sheet file and corrected the resolution (with NO change to visual fidelity) and then within 20 MINUTES, email the damn thing RIGHT BACK to the same idiot that couldn't pull his head from his own ass, I could probably go buy a set of injectors with that money, lol.

Cause God knows..... everybody loves opening up each and every freakin page as a new PDF (slap forehead again)

Boy, you can really get through a set of plans and find what you're looking for like that..... LOL

I would say about half the Architects I work with purposefully inflate their drawing sizes and complicate the process to help justify why their existence, and price.

So many things in this world are so much easier than the majority makes them. Same problem we're having that spawned this thread. Same sh*t.... different topic.

you arent the first ludite I have to deal with re: dropbox fears.

I deal with it daily bud. I know how to use dropbox. 80% of people like you think they do, then about 3 days later they finally pull head from ass and produce a working link.

Hell, you think you have access to all the files on dropbox at any time simply because you have access to your files on your computer, lol. Well, duh, lol. What about Jimbob that sent you that set of plans that you didn't save, you just viewed online and decided not to bid on? Lets say you want to take another look at those, whoops...... that link has expired.... and bingo... you don't actually have those files. As an added bonus, you have no way to get them either, unless you have Jimbo's phone number.

what I do find odd is that this is at least the third powerstroke forum you have had to join yet you think it is more likely then another site to survive the internet disappearing act... you must be new to the web??
the trick is to have someone keep copies of this info in more then one spot to be able to re-up it to the next filesharing scheme of the week. that or it goes the way of webshots.

eventually the owners of this site will sell to Autoguide like the rest of the internet has

And I'll still have the phone number to the man standing in the room next to the whirring servers this site is being served from, lol.

I don't know the guy's number that runs the computers for dropbox, do you?

 

[m j]

I am beginning to think you just like to hear yourself talk but wont actually do anything.

 

[Charles]

I am beginning to think you just like to hear yourself talk but wont actually do anything.

I take it my above experiences hit home.


As for what I've done:

I called the server operator and talked about how to do the physical uploading and downloading and to make sure it wouldn't be a PITA for anybody before bugging anyone within minutes of seeing this thread. I then called and texted the site administrator Monday night (albeit late, about 8:00pm) and was told I would get a call the next day. The next day I quickly talked to the site owner, clearing it, and received confirmation from the admin that he was okay as well. I then immediately called back to the server operator saying it was good to go, at which point he said he needed an email or a phone call from the admin, which made good sense to me. After all, I could just be talking out my ass right? I texted the admin with a quick reply that it was no problem.

And here we sit..... Thursday. I called only one time each day since, mid day, mid afternoon, and around 5 or so yesterday hoping to get the ball rolling, or hear that it was already taken care of. I did not call more often out of respect.

The time of year is probably the hurdle to overcome here, as the admin is a stand up kind of guy in my experience.

The other hurdle is that nobody else probably gives a ***. Which I can respect.... it doesn't matter to them. Hence where we find ourselves, lol.

But as for my role, what part of that sounds like I wasn't doing what was necessary to make this happen?

 

[Charles]

Even though he can call me a Ludite, then roll out butt-hurt, MJ did suggest a different way to use dropbox with a team box in a private message to me.

While I think that still requires all parties to actually have and be logged into a dropbox account, I did find another possible way that as of about 5 or 6 months ago, dropbox will allow non-members to actually upload as well as download files if set up a certain way. I will search into that more.

If any of you are already aware of all the ins and outs of how to do up and downloading by users without them having to set up and log in to an account, including you MJ.... I'm all ears.

And when the thing goes down, we can just start over, lol.

 

[cleatus12r]

Here are just a few problems you'll run into based on certain scenarios....and could we PLEASE use the actual HEX CODE nomenclature because just saying "vdh" and "pmt" mean absolutely nothing when people start loading calibrations into their tuning software and chips because the common VDH2 is NOT interchangable with the other common VDH4 and VDH5?

1. You have just successfully uploaded your 224K binary into the forum for your TNAA4S2 (VDH2) for 200% nozzles (we won't worry about capacity yet because that changes nothing but the absolute pulse width cap) and someone goes and downloads it so they can use it on their TS chip that is using TNAA5S8 (VDH4) tuning from someone else. Guess what happens....you get blamed for giving away a faulty tune that causes a stumble when changing from one position to the next. This also does the same thing with a Hydra, but 224K binary doesn't work with a Hydra. Bill has a converter for this and an encryption tool to cover that though.

2. Liability? Say someone blows up their engine using your calibration. What then?




3. Without numerous definition files and knowing how to change normalizers to correctly make mapping a copy and paste deal, it's going to be necessary to have calibrations available to all of the different hex codes out there because if someone downloads your TNAA4S2 calibration for 200% nozzles to use in their VCAB0_02 truck, even if they have Minotaur and a definition for their 95-97, your tuning is useless to them. Searching through raw HEX for maps is a tedious process....especially when the maps are different "sizes" between those two examples. Also, certain (and rare ones like APX1) that won't run correctly on any others have to be made.
Also, people don't understand PCM code compatibility. Neither did I back in late 2007 when I started. It doesn't take long to figure out what works where. Having three iterations at home and six more at work really helps one understand what works and what doesn't when swapping between years of trucks.


4. Personal experience here: All 200% nozzle injectors ARE NOT THE SAME. The tuning for the 250/200% injectors from builder "A" in my otherwise all-stock truck will NOT correctly run the same size injectors from builder "B" in two similar vehicles and vice-versa. I cannot run less than 1.3mS of COMMANDED pulse width with my injectors or they do not reliably fire whereas I can get away with a COMMANDED pulse width of 0.9mS with others.

5. Cold-start smoke? Ford knew what they were doing with the tuning. Leave 95% of it alone. Seriously.

It's supposed to be -8 here tomorrow morning. Say I make a video of the 250/200% truck starting without being plugged in (and since it's 2wd and there has been snow on the roads for almost 2 weeks it's been sitting there), how would that grab you? Stock power (220-ish) tune.

 

[cleatus12r]

Emulation:

The Quarterhorse from Moates has made the "have to have matching base calibrations to the PCM" and stalling while tuning (as with a Romulator or TWEECER) a thing of the past. Have a VNAAAS3 PCM but want (for some reason or another) VRAA6S3? No sweat. Get a VRAA6 definition and a Quarterhorse. BAM!

 

[cleatus12r]

Is that one of the smart asses that can run their mouth all day and never explain why my template could not control the transmission in my truck? If so, that explains the prick attitude. If you want to remain part of the problem then don't type.

Ever notice how some people are just that sharp and useless type?

If you're not one of dumb and dumber playing phone jockey they my appology. Just fix the prick attitude with no contribution in that case.

Unfortunately, while the control for the transmission DOES exist in the 99-03 trucks and is correct, Ford outsmarted themselves with making so many adders/multipliers/adaptives in the tuning that need to be nullified to get any accuracy that changing shift points DOES do something.......but it's just a rough estimation of what will actually happen depending on acceleration rate, temperature, accelerator pedal position rate of change, etc.. The 95-97 trucks do exactly what you want them to do when you want them to do it but they do lack some really neat features like torque reduction during shifts, PWM torque converter clutch apply, and temperature-based functions. The torque converter clutch releasing on brake application is really easy to fix and they can easily be set up to shift just like a 2001 with a VRAA6S3 (although being able to accomplish the VRAA7S5-current) torque converter clutch release on a forced 4-3 downshift would be nice. It's easy to make a VRAA6S3 (PMT1) do it though. I'm including the TNAA4S2 you're using in with the VRAA7S5 stuff because they are for all intents and purposes identical in the transmission control department.

 

[Strictly Diesel]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but with the QuarterHorse you would still need to use a calibration that is correct for that particular PCM part number (DPC-4##). I don't think you can use a DPC-452 cal on a DPC-422 PCM...but I've never tried.

 

[cleatus12r]

It will work in that case. You can make tuning for TNAA4S2 (VDH2) with a 99-01 truck with a DPC-422 box. The water in fuel light will be on, but everything will work for tuning.

The reverse isn't true because the alternator won't work.

 

[cleatus12r]

Put a TNAA4S2 calibration on your Quarterhorse, slap in in a VNAA8U5 PCM and tune away! Just don't hit the "Stock" soft key in the Emulator window or it'll stall.

 

[cleatus12r]

Heck, even an E99 truck will run with 99-01 or 02-03 calibrations on a chip...it'll just shift really hard and the check engine light will come on for a P0107 (The code can be negated in the tuning but then the torque converter clutch won't apply). There will be some high-RPM issues due to RPM calculation strategy differences, but it'll work in a pinch.

 

[Charles]

Here are just a few problems you'll run into based on certain scenarios....and could we PLEASE use the actual HEX CODE nomenclature because just saying "vdh" and "pmt" mean absolutely nothing when people start loading calibrations into their tuning software and chips because the common VDH2 is NOT interchangable with the other common VDH4 and VDH5?

1. You have just successfully uploaded your 224K binary into the forum for your TNAA4S2 (VDH2) for 200% nozzles (we won't worry about capacity yet because that changes nothing but the absolute pulse width cap) and someone goes and downloads it so they can use it on their TS chip that is using TNAA5S8 (VDH4) tuning from someone else. Guess what happens....you get blamed for giving away a faulty tune that causes a stumble when changing from one position to the next. This also does the same thing with a Hydra, but 224K binary doesn't work with a Hydra. Bill has a converter for this and an encryption tool to cover that though.

Surely a stumble if they don't switch the truck off isn't the reason for all of the above? Is there no other reason to care about whether it's VDH2 or VDH600? If not, that seems like a minor, to non-existent problem. For me, non-existent, I don't run but one program. And I still don't see why you would for that matter.

As for the addressing offsets needed for special chips, just say what the thing needs, unless the converter is online, or comes with the thing and people have access to it. Back when my first templates were 56K DAT files IIRC, I drove myself nuts having to cut the 56k out of the 224k file in a hex editor over and over again and then paste the altered portion back in and eventually just opened my template in notepad and fixed the problem there so it would address the 224k file appropriately. If my template wasn't locked in minotaur I would have already addressed a few things more than likely. If anything pissed me off enough I would just go table by table in a hex editor by setting entire maps to say 100 and then noting their addresses to fill out my own unlocked version of each one. Yeah, locking them kinda pisses me off. I may "unlock" them as above at some point. Then having a template for any device that wanted less than 224 would be a 5 minute deal.

Anyway, it all sounds like the same old whose gonna address from where to where again game. Don't tell me the Hydra uses a 56k file again, lol. If I have incorrectly remembered the dat file size, my bad. Been a long time.

2. Liability? Say someone blows up their engine using your calibration. What then?

Sucks. But this isn't a payed deal. No money and no expressed, inferred or alluded to notion of safety. Adult swim. No lifeguard on duty. Swim at your own risk. If you can't bounce back from the possibility of a rod hanging out the side of your engine, don't come here. If it sounds wrong, it probably is. Stop running the file.

3. Without numerous definition files and knowing how to change normalizers to correctly make mapping a copy and paste deal, it's going to be necessary to have calibrations available to all of the different hex codes out there because if someone downloads your TNAA4S2 calibration for 200% nozzles to use in their VCAB0_02 truck, even if they have Minotaur and a definition for their 95-97, your tuning is useless to them. Searching through raw HEX for maps is a tedious process....especially when the maps are different "sizes" between those two examples. Also, certain (and rare ones like APX1) that won't run correctly on any others have to be made.
Also, people don't understand PCM code compatibility. Neither did I back in late 2007 when I started. It doesn't take long to figure out what works where. Having three iterations at home and six more at work really helps one understand what works and what doesn't when swapping between years of trucks.

Luckily we don't have to care if everybody gets a piece of cake. It's not a birthday party. If nobody writes a file for your cache code, then you don't get to play, lol. Or.... you could write one yourself. Why do you think I bought PHP tune from Bill?

And I would expressly discourage anyone from copying and pasting anything, even on the exact same everything. The chances of the file running as intended is nill. There's way too much total horsesh*t in the background for that to have much success.

Copying and pasting would be for advanced users who were actively uploading files.... not for someone downloading files....

Even then.... the chances of them getting it right would be low. Better to open two instances of the tuning software.

4. Personal experience here: All 200% nozzle injectors ARE NOT THE SAME. The tuning for the 250/200% injectors from builder "A" in my otherwise all-stock truck will NOT correctly run the same size injectors from builder "B" in two similar vehicles and vice-versa. I cannot run less than 1.3mS of COMMANDED pulse width with my injectors or they do not reliably fire whereas I can get away with a COMMANDED pulse width of 0.9mS with others.

Sounds like some really shoddy over gap "tolerances", lol. All that ends up meaning is a little bit of timing, and mean a little bit, and lost or gained effective pulsewidth. But very little. The truck's not going to go from perfect to a smoky pile of fail based on that. Not even close. Biggest thing you might notice is the distance you push the pedal before the truck moves on tip-in.

Why on earth are your injectors so slow???

5. Cold-start smoke? Ford knew what they were doing with the tuning. Leave 95% of it alone. Seriously.

It's supposed to be -8 here tomorrow morning. Say I make a video of the 250/200% truck starting without being plugged in (and since it's 2wd and there has been snow on the roads for almost 2 weeks it's been sitting there), how would that grab you? Stock power (220-ish) tune.

Load the file up.

LOL


Fwiw, I haven't changed anything I'm aware of other than

Fuel injector pulsewidth
Mass fuel desired
Altitude timing (I don't have one for sea level)
ICP desired
and the base idle speed

Other than that, turning off the Map sensor SES.


I'm going from memory, so there's probably something else, but I can't remember what.

Now for whatever reason, when I started messing with the VDH (haha) the truck wouldn't run in any of the provided files that had 0 where the power number is listed. So I grabbed the 25t file, it cranked the truck so I used it for a base file.

When I moved to the AEB PCM I just grabbed the 25t file again to start. Is there anything in that file that was already changed from stock that would affect the smoke?

Lastly, my truck doesn't smoke like a train. It's not horrendous. I just think it could be less.


And thanks for the input. That's what contribution looks like.

 

[cleatus12r]

That file won't do you any good. It's a 2000 that I put a BARO sensor in a couple years ago so I could run an VHAE9J2 (XLE4) PCM and calibrations. Damn E99 stuff is da bomb (once the math in the definition for the pulse width map is corrected)!!

 

[Charles]

Unfortunately, while the control for the transmission DOES exist in the 99-03 trucks and is correct, Ford outsmarted themselves with making so many adders/multipliers/adaptives in the tuning that need to be nullified to get any accuracy that changing shift points DOES do something.......but it's just a rough estimation of what will actually happen depending on acceleration rate, temperature, accelerator pedal position rate of change, etc.. The 95-97 trucks do exactly what you want them to do when you want them to do it but they do lack some really neat features like torque reduction during shifts, PWM torque converter clutch apply, and temperature-based functions. The torque converter clutch releasing on brake application is really easy to fix and they can easily be set up to shift just like a 2001 with a VRAA6S3 (although being able to accomplish the VRAA7S5-current) torque converter clutch release on a forced 4-3 downshift would be nice. It's easy to make a VRAA6S3 (PMT1) do it though. I'm including the TNAA4S2 you're using in with the VRAA7S5 stuff because they are for all intents and purposes identical in the transmission control department.

Now that was an answer. The above works a hell of a lot better than, well I can teach you how to tune if you want to pay me for a class, as if there was nothing wrong with the way the values were resulting in actual changes to the state of tune.

Luckily my PCS does what it's told. 100% of the time.

Now for my excursion that is stock, it would be nice to alter the trans schedule, but your above description fits my experience to a T. And it sounds like it's always going to be a real loosy, goosy bs fest.

 

[Charles]

Heck, even an E99 truck will run with 99-01 or 02-03 calibrations on a chip...it'll just shift really hard and the check engine light will come on for a P0107 (The code can be negated in the tuning but then the torque converter clutch won't apply). There will be some high-RPM issues due to RPM calculation strategy differences, but it'll work in a pinch.

I can attest to the rpm calculation problems. In a pinch I ran a DAC file on my E99 PCM one time and it drove around about the same, but the rpm was messed up, and upper rpm fuel was way messed up. Truck would blow the tires off, then eaaaaaaaaaaaase up on the shift point and immediately murder the tires again right off a shift.

Still outran a new camaro

 

[cleatus12r]

Surely a stumble if they don't switch the truck off isn't the reason for all of the above? Is there no other reason to care about whether it's VDH2 or VDH600? If not, that seems like a minor, to non-existent problem. For me, non-existent, I don't run but one program. And I still don't see why you would for that matter.

I run one program in all of my trucks. One calibration for everything. I don't get "multiple tunes" either, but then again, I tune my own junk and can make it how I want it....how it SHOULD be. The reason it matters is because your "template" for TNAA4 will not give the correct values if a VDH4 or VDH5 binary is inserted into the tuning software.

As for the addressing offsets needed for special chips, just say what the thing needs, unless the converter is online, or comes with the thing and people have access to it. Back when my first templates were 56K DAT files IIRC, I drove myself nuts having to cut the 56k out of the 224k file in a hex editor over and over again and then paste the altered portion back in and eventually just opened my template in notepad and fixed the problem there so it would address the 224k file appropriately. If my template wasn't locked in minotaur I would have already addressed a few things more than likely. If anything pissed me off enough I would just go table by table in a hex editor by setting entire maps to say 100 and then noting their addresses to fill out my own unlocked version of each one. Yeah, locking them kinda pisses me off. I may "unlock" them as above at some point. Then having a template for any device that wanted less than 224 would be a 5 minute deal.

There is no need for 32K or 56K stuff anymore with the Quarterhorse. The definitions for Minotaur are available with 256K file sizes (and that's what the Quarterhorse and Hydra uses). Yes, the converters are on PHP's website.

Anyway, it all sounds like the same old whose gonna address from where to where again game. Don't tell me the Hydra uses a 56k file again, lol. If I have incorrectly remembered the dat file size, my bad. Been a long time.

Nope.

Sucks. But this isn't a payed deal. No money and no expressed, inferred or alluded to notion of safety. Adult swim. No lifeguard on duty. Swim at your own risk. If you can't bounce back from the possibility of a rod hanging out the side of your engine, don't come here. If it sounds wrong, it probably is. Stop running the file.

That might work, but today's society isn't going to agree.

And I would expressly discourage anyone from copying and pasting anything, even on the exact same everything. The chances of the file running as intended is nill. There's way too much total horsesh*t in the background for that to have much success.

Copying and pasting would be for advanced users who were actively uploading files.... not for someone downloading files....

Even then.... the chances of them getting it right would be low. Better to open two instances of the tuning software.

Well, yeah.

Sounds like some really shoddy over gap "tolerances", lol. All that ends up meaning is a little bit of timing, and mean a little bit, and lost or gained effective pulsewidth. But very little. The truck's not going to go from perfect to a smoky pile of fail based on that. Not even close. Biggest thing you might notice is the distance you push the pedal before the truck moves on tip-in.

Why on earth are your injectors so slow???

Half of a millisecond is an eternity with 200% nozzles. You should know that. All of my low-speed, low-load resolution has to be controlled by injection pressure. Under load, it's a non-issue.




Load the file up.

LOL


Fwiw, I haven't changed anything I'm aware of other than

Fuel injector pulsewidth
Mass fuel desired
Altitude timing (I don't have one for sea level)
ICP desired
and the base idle speed

Other than that, turning off the Map sensor SES.


I'm going from memory, so there's probably something else, but I can't remember what.

Now for whatever reason, when I started messing with the VDH (haha) the truck wouldn't run in any of the provided files that had 0 where the power number is listed. So I grabbed the 25t file, it cranked the truck so I used it for a base file.

When I moved to the AEB PCM I just grabbed the 25t file again to start. Is there anything in that file that was already changed from stock that would affect the smoke?

Lastly, my truck doesn't smoke like a train. It's not horrendous. I just think it could be less.


And thanks for the input. That's what contribution looks like.[/QUOTE]