Water pump install

[Turbosuzuki]

Best way to learn is by doing it wrong and fixing it. And you were able to figure it out on your own. Nicely done.

Thanks man. I changed it out and so far no leaks. Now I didn't get it to operating temperature yet but so far no leaks. Before it would leak as soon as I started the truck. I have taken that housing off so many times it's a piece of cake now lol.

 

[79jasper]

That'll do it.
Are you using the Motorcraft thermo?
I think that's the only one that actually has the "gasket" attached. The others just have a square cut oring.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[Izzybird]

Fought a dripping housing on my truck when I switched to ELC eons ago and have used a bit of this on every one I've done since, whether it needed it or not.
https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-80019-Aviation-Gasket-Sealant/dp/B000HBM3QQ

 

[ju015dd]

New radiator and I also put a new degas bottle and cap running elc coolant also.

keep an eye on that bottle. I went through 2 just recently, neither would hold pressure at the cap. Returned and went with motorcraaft brand bottle.

 

[Turbosuzuki]

That'll do it.
Are you using the Motorcraft thermo?
I think that's the only one that actually has the "gasket" attached. The others just have a square cut oring.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

No I bought the 180 terminator from Riffraff.

 

[79jasper]

Ah. Yeah, I could see the confusion then. Lol

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[Turbosuzuki]

keep an eye on that bottle. I went through 2 just recently, neither would hold pressure at the cap. Returned and went with motorcraaft brand bottle.

I bought the bottle and cap from Riffraff I figured it was a oem.


Izzybird I was thinking of something similar but was told not to but if it leaks again I may.

 

[bruce]

A billet thermostat housing is well worth it IMO.

 

[ju015dd]

I bought the bottle and cap from Riffraff I figured it was a oem.


Izzybird I was thinking of something similar but was told not to but if it leaks again I may.

Sorry, had to go back and look at it again. If you bought oem then you are good to go!

 

[Turbosuzuki]

A billet thermostat housing is well worth it IMO.

I had heard of the oem one leaking and rusting. I didn't want to try to risk it then have a leak and have to order one. I just went ahead and got it and thankfully I did because in the span of 2 days I had it off the truck 4 times lol. I drove about 20 miles today in traffic and interstate no leaks temp Guage reads normal but I have been checking the surface Temps and getting which I feel are low reading.

I know it's silly but I don't have a aftermarket coolant temp Guage so I check Temps with a Lazer I know it's just surface but the hottest point I get 155 from the oil pan.

I did this to see if it was hot enough for the thermostat to open, maybe I don't understand fully how they work. I figured my temp Guage says normal I figured the radiator hoses would be around 190 degrees or better. Is this correct or am I way off? The hose today when I got home was 160 degrees. I didn't have the ac on I guess these trucks run cooler than I thought. Now I know what I'm doing is silly but I just wanted to make sure the thermostat was opening but if it's a 180 degree that's means I need coolant Temps over 180 to open it correct?

 

[Swaan]

If your top rad hose is very hot to the touch then your thermostat is opening

 

[psduser1]

I had heard of the oem one leaking and rusting. I didn't want to try to risk it then have a leak and have to order one. I just went ahead and got it and thankfully I did because in the span of 2 days I had it off the truck 4 times lol. I drove about 20 miles today in traffic and interstate no leaks temp Guage reads normal but I have been checking the surface Temps and getting which I feel are low reading.

I know it's silly but I don't have a aftermarket coolant temp Guage so I check Temps with a Lazer I know it's just surface but the hottest point I get 155 from the oil pan.

I did this to see if it was hot enough for the thermostat to open, maybe I don't understand fully how they work. I figured my temp Guage says normal I figured the radiator hoses would be around 190 degrees or better. Is this correct or am I way off? The hose today when I got home was 160 degrees. I didn't have the ac on I guess these trucks run cooler than I thought. Now I know what I'm doing is silly but I just wanted to make sure the thermostat was opening but if it's a 180 degree that's means I need coolant Temps over 180 to open it correct?

Depending on load and ambient Temps, the thermostat may never, or rarely open. Generally, these trucks run pretty cool.
Like swaan said, put your hand on the hose, if it's substantially cooler the thermostat isn't open.
If you touch it and you say"oh ***, that's hot", it's open, lol.

 

[Turbosuzuki]

Lol OK thanks guys. If I touched it today it would have been hot, the surface temp was 160 degrees. Now my fan has never come on in the 6 years I have owned the truck. It does in the mornings when cold but after a couple minutes it goes off. I keep my condenser and intercooler clean, my radiator is brand new so I know it's clean.

 

[TARM]

Its been a while since I changed a t-stat on my 7.3 but many of the premium t-stats Another trick to help burp the system is to put the truck on a very steep incline nose up. This puts the high point of the system at the rad and return hose which helps the air pocket rise to that point and dissipate.

IMHO the 180 tstat is a mistake. T stats control the minimum warmed up"operating temp. One of the main responsibilities of coolant and its temp is to control/stabilize oil temps within a given range. When oil temps are below roughly 200 degrees when fully warmed up there is excessive wear on the engine lubricated parts. When oil temps drops just below 195 degrees engine wear rates rise very sharply for each degree lower.

Numerous studies have been conducted by large industrial machine manf as well as large OTR motor manf on this. It was very apparent in very cold climates where engines never got up to these temps i.e. Alaska. Engines were wearing out in half the duty hours compared to lower 49 warmer climates. The studies showed warmer oil up to the point of breakdown decreased wear. But that there was a clear threshold point where once reached associated wear decreased drastically and increases in temp above this range had far less positive effect on wear. That threshold point is right around 200 F IIRC tech 195-215 but you have to consider do you want to be right on the very edge. To me best to be at least 5 F over just to be safe thus I would error on the 200-210 range. There are number of reasons for this to include hydro carbon and water condensation boil off thresholds that need to be reached. Its a rather interesting coincidence that the hot oil viscosity rating of multi-grade oil is at an oil temp of 212 F which happens also to be the boiling point of water.

The 7.3 PS in SD has one of the most robust cooling systems in consumer trucks IMO. When a cooling system is properly matched to an engine and its application, running the engine under full load in the highest ambient temps expected should not have the T-stat fully opening and if it does it should only be very temporary condition while a secondary cooling aid comes online ( fan clutch lock up) bring it quickly back down into the partially open state. When the t-stat fully opens chronically it means the system is maxed out.

Tstats are suppose to start to open very close to their rated temp +/- 3 F they fully open by 20 F over the rated temp. If you have an accurate (not idiot factory gauge) coolant temp gauge and sensor you can use this to know where you are at in terms of cooling capacity. Take a 195 F rated Tstat.

Temp to crack open 192-198 F
Temp to ensure fully open 212-218F

Coolant Fan clutch max lockup 212-218F range. Its actually air temp but this seems to be the corresponding coolant temp ranges. The air temp is usually +/- 30 F cooler than coolant temp. (Obviously there is going to be some spread here from engine to engine.)

That puts AVERAGE oil temps at full operating temp 192-228F depending on load and ambient temp.

The 7.3s system system was very well designed and matched. Its why we can fill half coolant channels in the block and still have no over heating issues with power 3x + stock.

A 180 degree tstat is going to keep your coolant at give or take 180 F for a good period of the time. If the oil cooler is functioning properly the oil temps usually within 10 degrees of coolant and it takes quite a while under low load normal driving conditions to reach that level. Thus oil is going to be spending a much longer time below the threshold for excessive engine wear.

Even when it does reach that 10 F range you are only looking at 190 F which is right on the edge. Again if everything is functioning properly. Clogged oil cooler etc can have effect on oil to coolant temp difference. As these engines were sand cast it seems some have issues with it not only eating the coolant pump but the oil cooler heat exchanger as well.


There is a reason almost every engine today runs coolant temps around 195-220 degrees via their t-stat rating.

Another thing to consider is the fueling timing tables are effected by oil temp. IMO its one of a number of reasons why engines that are romped on hard with regularity before average oil temp reaches NOT around 200 degrees they have coking, carbon and die early form the combo of cold oil and heavy timing advance under heavy engine load. There are a some threads on this somewhere back in the archives that look at this and show examples IIRC 7.3 out of emergency vehicles ambulances I think.

The goal is to get oil temps up as quickly as possible under light engine load so that heavier engine load can happen without damage. Thus coolant is two fold first heating then cooling oil temps. All of this is controlled by the t-stat temp performance. The sooner oil temps are up the sooner you can romp on the skinny pedal and have a smile on your face.

 

[Turbosuzuki]

Thanks TARM that was great reading I have a better understanding now. We don't suffer from bad winters down here but lots of heat and humidity though. Now before I installed all the new stuff the truck had the oem thermostat. Never had a over heating problem I figured while it was apart I would add that to help with summer time heat with the ac.

I don't stress the truck at all its my dd but it has a easy life with me, only problem it doesn't get to stretch it's legs a lot of around the town driving so it doesn't always get to temp before I have to shut it off which I do hate. I did work it for the first time this morning which was nice I had to drive 16 miles to move a 40ft camper trailer for someone.

It was a cool morning and after a interstate drive when we arrived at the camp grounds the speed limit was 10. I did notice my temp gauge start to drop some. I usually keep a eye on them but the never move but this morning it did like it was cooling off from idling through the camp site. I need to see about some gauges that will be my next issue to tackle .

 

[gnxtc2]

Tstats are suppose to start to open very close to their rated temp +/- 3 F they fully open by 20 F over the rated temp. If you have an accurate (not idiot factory gauge) coolant temp gauge and sensor you can use this to know where you are at in terms of cooling capacity. Take a 195 F rated Tstat.

Where would the best place be to take a reading of the coolant temp? Reason I'm asking, I have the sensor for my E-clutch in the driver's head at the rear. The coolant gauge sensor is by the T-stat. I see a difference of 5*-10* between the two sensors. The sensor in the head reads cooler. Could it be a variance between the sensor, possibly.

I have a 192* degree t-stat and oil temps are in the 200*-210* range. Working the motor while towing and pulling hills, oil temps and coolant temps hit 225*. Once the coolant temp but cool down, so do the oil temps but a slower rate.

Billy T.
[email protected]

 

[Magnum PD]

TARM is the man with the knowledge!

Good read man.

 

[TARM]

Ideally you want to take it right at its about the leave the engine and enter the rad hose. This is usually where many OEM have the sensor and where its at on the 7.3 right before it hits the upper rad hose to go into the rad.



IMO (and I certainly defer to real experts such as Dave@ Swamps and the like and not just a hobbiest as myself) ultimately in these engines what really should be the deciding factor, outside of the extreme, of what changes if any are needed in the coolant system is the average oil temps when under load when everything is fully up to operating temp. The issue is that the t-stat can not bring down oil temps which are already exceeding the fully open t-stat and oil temps should be within a range that 195 and even a 203 should be fully open at that point. A cooler T-stat could technically delay higher oil temps it short term as its starting lower but again you have to consider the fan kicking in right around the standard 195 fully open temp range and 5-10 degree prior to a 203 if ranges hold true. Also how is this effecting injector timing as well. I think in a perfect world it happens just short of fully open on the t-stat but whatever its close. Not saying some highly mod'd engine might need something different just that for 99% this is not the case.

Now there are some engines which I think have something up with possibly the oil cooler that have oil running higher ratio temps to the coolant. There is no denying people have reported higher oil temps that exceed 10-15 degree over coolant temps. Some by a good margin. I can not help to wonder what is different. The first thing that comes to mind is the oil coolers performance. Maybe something in the casting in the coolant ports going to the cooler. I am not sure if the cooler is new.

In speaking of oil temps something also to consider is that todays diesel oils usually exceed all gasser oil cert ratings. Consider some of the testings for cert are oil having temps up to 900F to see if it leaves deposits on crank shaft. This is to simulate a good deal over the peak temps that can be found at the top piston ring which is the hottest environment in the engine oil is exposed to. In diesels literature states this tops out @ 600. I of course have never personally test or seen it tested so I have to accept it as accurate. So 900 degrees exceeds this by 30%

Then you have oil run @ 300+ degrees for IIRC 100 hrs and it must maintain is rated viscosity range at the end. That would be like akin to having your average oil temp readings staying at 300 F @ say 60 mph for 6000 miles.

Point being the oil can very likely handle all but very extreme temps where you KNOW you have an issue.

We are lucky today that we have oils that actually protect better from wear and other negative effects with high levels of friction modifiers yet are considerably less viscous for given level of performance and protection. In terms of the HUEI system this can only be a positive as I can see it. The less viscous the oil the fast it can flow in and out of the injectors.

 

[TARM]

Where would the best place be to take a reading of the coolant temp? Reason I'm asking, I have the sensor for my E-clutch in the driver's head at the rear. The coolant gauge sensor is by the T-stat. I see a difference of 5*-10* between the two sensors. The sensor in the head reads cooler. Could it be a variance between the sensor, possibly.

I have a 192* degree t-stat and oil temps are in the 200*-210* range. Working the motor while towing and pulling hills, oil temps and coolant temps hit 225*. Once the coolant temp but cool down, so do the oil temps but a slower rate.

Billy T.
[email protected]

So if I understand correctly when running at a steady load you are holding in the typical range for coolant to temp but under a very heavy fully loaded engine both your oil and coolant temps rise to 225 F and then oil comes down slower than coolant?

That sounds correct to me. Oil always takes longer to warm up and thus also to cool down. Those temps are well well within the oil performance temps. Have you noticed at what coolant temp does the jet engine of fan lock up and start to roar? Also what temp does it seem to cut off and get quiet again?

You are just a few degrees over where the tstat should be opens fully. I have always questions just how accurately testing Tstats in a pot be it water or even proper coolant solution. Its a good test to ensure function but IMO not to accurately coolant temp to how much the tstat opens until its fully open. The reason is you do not have any of the coolant pressure against the tstat that you do from the flow of the coolant pump in an operating engine. Never bothered to test it or even do much research as I have not really had issues.

To me those numbers look fine but things to always consider are how old is your oil cooler and have you been running a bypass coolant filter. If not you have to consider how much if any could it possibly be clogged with sediment.

If not the orig owner was distilled water always used? Could have mineral deposts.

Is the Tstat a Motorcraft Tstat? I have not had good luck with STANT. While they have a big name I have had more issues with their tstat and seen plenty of others as well in few different engines that I have stayed away from them for the last gosh almost 20 years. Damnit I am getting to be an old fart.

 

[TARM]

TARM is the man with the knowledge!

Good read man.

Thank you for the complement. But IMO real knowledge/experince comes from tons and tons of hands on combined with lots of tech info from various sources. Seeing all sorts of variations and conditions. My hands on knowledge is only that of maybe an advanced hobbist. I know my posts are wordy and can give that impression. I do alot of research and am good at that before postings and I take the time to ensure the info I post is not misunderstood and complete as possible. I am always learning.


Real experts are the likes of a number of the forum sponsors and few of the members. I do not count myself in that group and I know I am correct in that.

I just enjoy being able to pass on what I do know if it can be helpful to others.