alradco
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Do you still have the original radiator? How many miles?
Who else runs hot?
- Thread starter DEEZUZ
- Start date
Do you still have the original radiator? How many miles?
Yeeeep. Or the 192 that international sells. Works fine.
lincolnlocker
Well-known member
this^^^
id didnt have a problem blowing hot air out the defrost if thats what you mean!
live life full throttle
Yes but as you see this is light Highway cruising. So why would being chipped and 38r'd make a difference? This isn't a case of me being rough at all and this happening. This is city driving, merging onto Highway and kicking back at 70 mph
lincolnlocker
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2000wa250
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I had the 203 in mine when I first installed 250/200's, 468, and twin termies..... normal oil temps were 215-225....put in the 180 and now highest I'll ever see is 215. Cruise unloaded is about 190ish...
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zilla68
Active member
do you have an obs radiator? if so pm me the pricing please
The T-stat number is when the T-Stat is suppose to first start to open +/- 2-4°F. The T-Stat should continue to open as temp rise over the next 20°F at which point it should be fully open again +/- 2-4°F.
Once you are above the temp a t-stat is suppose to be fully open ( and it actually is fully open) your t-stat has no influence over the coolant temp or oil temp. Its fully open. All the flow it has is flowing.
As an example 195°F starts to open at 195°F is fully open @ 215°F. If its operating correctly and you have a temp of 230°F the issue is not your T-stat range.
The 7.3 oil cooler as most everyone knows used coolant to maintain/control oil temps. Ideally the temps of the two fluids should be within 5-10°F of each other. If you are seeing somewhat consistent oil temps that are significantly higher than this over what your coolant temps are I would be looking at pulling the oil cooler and flushing/rebuilding it. Think of how many miles these things see and the lives many of them have had. Many times on rebuilds they just pop new gaskets on the oil cooler and slap it back on.
Oil has temp ranges that it is meant to operate in to get the specified performance. Hot temps that use to cook older oils from decades ago are now easily handled by the oils we have today. If you do some checking of ratings of temp and duration for the various certs you will see that most of the top oils would be able to go well past a 5000 mile OCI at temps of 300°F+ and still maintain its performance spec for that cert rating.
Consider for a moment that the stock T444E (AKA 7.3) motors that are in HD IH commercial trucks had a stock 203°F T-stat. Ford had to go to the lower 195 for the sole reason to reduce NOX along with a CCV to intake (IH drop it right to atmosphere down the front cover.) to ensure meeting EPA specs. They also put a crap cheap alum water pump instead of the nice all steel that had a built in coolant filter and cut off. Which was done to increase profit. Think the load those 7.3 is tri axle dump trucks are dealing with compared to our by comparison toy trucks.
Constant running oil temps below 195°F can cause long term damage. Ideally you want oil to actually reach 212°F /100°C. This is the general temp most all oils are developed for and most all engines are designed to run at.
There is a reason for this from a number of factors but one is that 212°F is the boiling temp for water. Then there are engine tolerance at specific temps. Its a reason vehicles never allowed to fully warm up need there oil changed more often and have higher wear rates. There are number of studies done on this mainly looking at engines used up in Alaska etc. But internal engine wear was measured and as temps fell below 200 wear increased and took a nose dive around 185°F IIRC as it was awhile ago. I recall doing a post over on PSN back before PSA came into being. Wear did not increase with higher oil temps numbers until it got significantly hotter. Now of course you have the peak cylinder temps to deal with but that is a different issue than the over all engine oil temps. Many studies have shown it the warm up period where temps are below these numbers of where most all engine wear happens.
Further take a look at the PCM oil temp table that effects the injection time etc.. This further supports these operating ranges.
I tried to find the study as it use to be listed on the SAE site but I can not figure out where I saved it. It was on diesel engines and decent graphs etc..
My point in all of this is colder oil temps are not better. Sure you do not want super hot oil temps either but anything from 210-240 is not bad. If your oil temps are higher than this then you should look into the cause not just try to patch it by putting in a lower temp T-stat.
First is the oil temp at most 15 maybe 20 degrees of the water temp once its fully warmed up and put under some decent load? The closer it is to the coolant temp the more effect the oil cooler system is working. If the temps are within the range and its both temps that are higher together then the issue could be in the coolant system side of things i.e. pump, radiator, t-Stat working correct (opening closing in the rated range), what about the fan clutch ( is it locking and spinning at full speed? Any blades missing), etc.
If the oil temps are outside the range or seem to always be at the very top end even under light/cruising loads then the issue is more likely in oil cooler performance. Is proper amount of coolant making it to and thru the cooler? What about the oil side?
After all consider that we have plenty of half filled blocks that still have no issues keeping oil and coolant temps in proper ranges.
Before you go changing a t-stat range especially to one cooler take a moment and consider why you should need one considering there are , what, millions of 7.3s running perfectly fine with many under extreme working loads with those same ones. Better to try and figure out the real issue first because the issue is not that the t-stat range is wrong.
Why?
In a properly matched coolant system to engine size and load the t-stat should technically only fully open at peak load. Do not forget want temp the fan clutch locks at. 190 degrees IIRC. That engine and coolant temp would put the air temp at the clutch around that? Maybe close to the same temps where the Tstat is should be just fully opening?
Anyways just some things to consider and think about.
Once you are above the temp a t-stat is suppose to be fully open ( and it actually is fully open) your t-stat has no influence over the coolant temp or oil temp. Its fully open. All the flow it has is flowing.
As an example 195°F starts to open at 195°F is fully open @ 215°F. If its operating correctly and you have a temp of 230°F the issue is not your T-stat range.
The 7.3 oil cooler as most everyone knows used coolant to maintain/control oil temps. Ideally the temps of the two fluids should be within 5-10°F of each other. If you are seeing somewhat consistent oil temps that are significantly higher than this over what your coolant temps are I would be looking at pulling the oil cooler and flushing/rebuilding it. Think of how many miles these things see and the lives many of them have had. Many times on rebuilds they just pop new gaskets on the oil cooler and slap it back on.
Oil has temp ranges that it is meant to operate in to get the specified performance. Hot temps that use to cook older oils from decades ago are now easily handled by the oils we have today. If you do some checking of ratings of temp and duration for the various certs you will see that most of the top oils would be able to go well past a 5000 mile OCI at temps of 300°F+ and still maintain its performance spec for that cert rating.
Consider for a moment that the stock T444E (AKA 7.3) motors that are in HD IH commercial trucks had a stock 203°F T-stat. Ford had to go to the lower 195 for the sole reason to reduce NOX along with a CCV to intake (IH drop it right to atmosphere down the front cover.) to ensure meeting EPA specs. They also put a crap cheap alum water pump instead of the nice all steel that had a built in coolant filter and cut off. Which was done to increase profit. Think the load those 7.3 is tri axle dump trucks are dealing with compared to our by comparison toy trucks.
Constant running oil temps below 195°F can cause long term damage. Ideally you want oil to actually reach 212°F /100°C. This is the general temp most all oils are developed for and most all engines are designed to run at.
There is a reason for this from a number of factors but one is that 212°F is the boiling temp for water. Then there are engine tolerance at specific temps. Its a reason vehicles never allowed to fully warm up need there oil changed more often and have higher wear rates. There are number of studies done on this mainly looking at engines used up in Alaska etc. But internal engine wear was measured and as temps fell below 200 wear increased and took a nose dive around 185°F IIRC as it was awhile ago. I recall doing a post over on PSN back before PSA came into being. Wear did not increase with higher oil temps numbers until it got significantly hotter. Now of course you have the peak cylinder temps to deal with but that is a different issue than the over all engine oil temps. Many studies have shown it the warm up period where temps are below these numbers of where most all engine wear happens.
Further take a look at the PCM oil temp table that effects the injection time etc.. This further supports these operating ranges.
I tried to find the study as it use to be listed on the SAE site but I can not figure out where I saved it. It was on diesel engines and decent graphs etc..
My point in all of this is colder oil temps are not better. Sure you do not want super hot oil temps either but anything from 210-240 is not bad. If your oil temps are higher than this then you should look into the cause not just try to patch it by putting in a lower temp T-stat.
First is the oil temp at most 15 maybe 20 degrees of the water temp once its fully warmed up and put under some decent load? The closer it is to the coolant temp the more effect the oil cooler system is working. If the temps are within the range and its both temps that are higher together then the issue could be in the coolant system side of things i.e. pump, radiator, t-Stat working correct (opening closing in the rated range), what about the fan clutch ( is it locking and spinning at full speed? Any blades missing), etc.
If the oil temps are outside the range or seem to always be at the very top end even under light/cruising loads then the issue is more likely in oil cooler performance. Is proper amount of coolant making it to and thru the cooler? What about the oil side?
After all consider that we have plenty of half filled blocks that still have no issues keeping oil and coolant temps in proper ranges.
Before you go changing a t-stat range especially to one cooler take a moment and consider why you should need one considering there are , what, millions of 7.3s running perfectly fine with many under extreme working loads with those same ones. Better to try and figure out the real issue first because the issue is not that the t-stat range is wrong.
Why?
In a properly matched coolant system to engine size and load the t-stat should technically only fully open at peak load. Do not forget want temp the fan clutch locks at. 190 degrees IIRC. That engine and coolant temp would put the air temp at the clutch around that? Maybe close to the same temps where the Tstat is should be just fully opening?
Anyways just some things to consider and think about.
The oil cooler passages are small. Perfect size to get plugged with small debris. Like casting sand. T8e wire is perfect size to clean those passages out.
My truck has had the coolant changed often and flushed too. At 250k my oil cooler was rebuilt by me for the first time but ford had been paid to do it once anyway. Probably 1/4 of the passages were plugged. While it was out the radiator was removed, scrubbed, and flushed thoroughly. I reassembled it all and ran distilled water with vc9 through the system. Drain, flush, flush, flush, and finally put chevron elc in.
My truck doesnt see 220° ever. It hits 210 occasionally on the big road doing 90 with the ac blasting in 95+° temps. Towing on an interstate or very heavy I dont know. The longest heavy tow Ive made since that happened was only about 7 miles. It was cool though.
If you are hitting 230, id say you got problems or developing some.
My truck has had the coolant changed often and flushed too. At 250k my oil cooler was rebuilt by me for the first time but ford had been paid to do it once anyway. Probably 1/4 of the passages were plugged. While it was out the radiator was removed, scrubbed, and flushed thoroughly. I reassembled it all and ran distilled water with vc9 through the system. Drain, flush, flush, flush, and finally put chevron elc in.
My truck doesnt see 220° ever. It hits 210 occasionally on the big road doing 90 with the ac blasting in 95+° temps. Towing on an interstate or very heavy I dont know. The longest heavy tow Ive made since that happened was only about 7 miles. It was cool though.
If you are hitting 230, id say you got problems or developing some.
Excellent train of though Tarm. Tuning and fuel modifications increase the heat that the oil and coolant see and that is why people are seeing hotter temps than a stock truck does. You have to load heavy and pull hard to get a stock truck to make 235° oil temps.
Unless its older and running a 5+ year old tstat that doesnt work correctly. Odds of the oil cooler being partially plugged are high too.
thats pretty hot... Id test the stat in boiling water to see if its even opening at 203, but I think Id be swapping them.
Also, what kind of shape is the cap in? are you filling the degas bottle? maybe getting steam pockets? If its not holding pressure it cant manage temp either. For as cheap as they are, change the cap also.
the seal on cap was folded over. flipped it back so it seals good now. ill drive it tomorrow see what it does. system is probably aireted, but i dont have my vac fill here at home. if this fixes the temperature issue ill drop coolant later this week, reseal the t stat housing and move on in life. thanks guys
Good. Yes I saw the video. Honestly it was almost like a malf T-stat. Like it sticks closed and it reaches a certain temp and finally it opens and wide open at that. You can really envision it looking at the way that Temp gauge literally plummets. It was as if it suddenly got a huge influx of cool coolant that flooded into the engine. The fan kicking on even at powerful as ours are would never cause a drop that size that fast. But figure both happening about the same temp and its a double whammy.
Honestly I just do not want to see people making changes that may not be needed and do not actually address the real issue.
When you really dig into these issues, unless it has something to do with someone filling a block, most of this can all be traced back to Ford making cost saving/profit increasing changes to the design of the manufacture. In this case my bet is much of it could be traced back to the water pump change. With that you got a pump with weaker seals and bearings, plumbing that makes various servicing a PITA, more failed pumps, possibly clogging of the oil cooler (coolant passages), confusion over t-stat compatibility that could possibly lead to cooking a cylinder or cracking a head.
Considering your issue CT Deezul I will be interested to see if the cap seal fixed has an issue. I never thought to consider that. For me it looked like a malfunctioning ( stuck) t-stat. Be sure to report back. Was your fan roaring once it got up to 210-220? It should have been sounding like a jet turbine at those temps. Then again if the fluid is not pumping thru the system correctly I tend to wonder what they would do to the temp the clutch is seeing. It all is some interconnected you sort of have to go thru things in steps starting with the most basic and moving on from there based on results. I know common sense but you would be surprised LOL
I was happy to finally, last year or was it two now, convert my 7.3 over to the IH water pump. Got a huge line of choices of in stock t-stats 184°F -230°F. I run the stock IH recommended 203°F The heater connection on the pump is directly in front of HPOP bolt /inspection cover plate. It has a built in bypass filter setup with cut off for filter changes. The pump has many other outlet ports with plugs included for all of them that can be used for turbo cooling setups or different coolant flow routing etc.
Honestly I just do not want to see people making changes that may not be needed and do not actually address the real issue.
When you really dig into these issues, unless it has something to do with someone filling a block, most of this can all be traced back to Ford making cost saving/profit increasing changes to the design of the manufacture. In this case my bet is much of it could be traced back to the water pump change. With that you got a pump with weaker seals and bearings, plumbing that makes various servicing a PITA, more failed pumps, possibly clogging of the oil cooler (coolant passages), confusion over t-stat compatibility that could possibly lead to cooking a cylinder or cracking a head.
Considering your issue CT Deezul I will be interested to see if the cap seal fixed has an issue. I never thought to consider that. For me it looked like a malfunctioning ( stuck) t-stat. Be sure to report back. Was your fan roaring once it got up to 210-220? It should have been sounding like a jet turbine at those temps. Then again if the fluid is not pumping thru the system correctly I tend to wonder what they would do to the temp the clutch is seeing. It all is some interconnected you sort of have to go thru things in steps starting with the most basic and moving on from there based on results. I know common sense but you would be surprised LOL
I was happy to finally, last year or was it two now, convert my 7.3 over to the IH water pump. Got a huge line of choices of in stock t-stats 184°F -230°F. I run the stock IH recommended 203°F The heater connection on the pump is directly in front of HPOP bolt /inspection cover plate. It has a built in bypass filter setup with cut off for filter changes. The pump has many other outlet ports with plugs included for all of them that can be used for turbo cooling setups or different coolant flow routing etc.
Little bit cooler today but I was working her a bit. 213* on full open and then she settled down right into the 203-209 range. Had decent pressure in degas when I got to work. All should be good. Now just to fix the pesky housing leak and refill via vacuum to rid and air.. Thanks
