valve spring options

[thuglike]

dynoproven has worked with crower to develop a set that is straight drop in NO machining required! I know im going to get ridiculed for noit having any specs on them but im sure Jason or Jonathon can supply the specs. I think a set is roughly 1200 with pushrods.

Jody from DP Tuner is leading this,.. there are no prices set. We do not have any in our possession as of yet.

I do know they will be totally drop in. No shimming. No machine work.
Kit will come with Smith Bros. push rods and all retainers, stem seals, stem locks/retainers. I will have a thread in our section once we get them in stock....

 

[thuglike]

Thats a joke 1200 is way over priced. You can get the springs and heavy wall pushrods from swamps for $750 i think and do not require any machining. All these springs are basically beehives anyway they can say they work with who ever all they want to they are all the same.

By way of comparison..Hypermax sells springs for 800.00 + 325.00 for push rods and ??? much for machine work.

If they were all the same, why exactly, was this thread started and replied to?

 

[TyCorr]

By way of comparison..Hypermax sells springs for 800.00 + 325.00 for push rods and ??? much for machine work.

If they were all the same, why exactly, was this thread started and replied to?

Hypermax was going to be around 3500 to install their "highrev kit". Which most guys around here call springs and push rods. I want to say the studs were 1100. All said, it would have been 28k to drop the truck off and pick it up with a built motor. That was back in 2011.

I would do it except one can buy a used 6.4 for that much and have more power for another 2 grand or less.

 

[smokinstroker92]

By way of comparison..Hypermax sells springs for 800.00 + 325.00 for push rods and ??? much for machine work.

If they were all the same, why exactly, was this thread started and replied to?

I shouldn't have said they are ALL the same. You basically have 3 options the 910s, beehives, and hypermax high rev. The hypermax spring are wayyy over priced also not to mention they require machining of the heads. Why would anyone want to use those when there are drop in springs that perform the same if not better. Your heads don't care the brand of spring that is installed just that it closes the valves when its supposed to and keeps them closed when supposed too.

People keep on saying that 910s are junk which is not true. They have there place depending on the rpm boost and back pressure that your motor will see. It is the installation errors that makes 910s give problems it is as simple as you need X amount of seat pressure that is achieved by a specific installed height for Y amount of boost or back pressure.

Lets take these swamps spring that are right at $700 for springs, locks, retainers, and seals. They are essentially beehives and could be bought from other sources as well.

Anyway they have a spring rate of 400lbs/in of travel and a spring pressure of [email protected] installed height. Let's say that we have a pretty hot setup that is running around 60psi of boost and 80psi of back pressure. Take your valve which has a surface area of 2.19in2 multiply that by the boost and back pressure. That gives you a minimum seat pressure needed to keep that valve closed under those conditions which is 131.4lbs for intake valve and 175.2lbs for the exhaust. There a safe seat pressure would be about 180lbs. That your spring and which is [email protected] then it will be [email protected] which is sufficient and at stock can lift would be [email protected] lift and [email protected] lift with an aftermarket cam. That is about the limit that you want to go on the max lift pressure unless modifications in the lifters to prevent collapsing or using solid lifters.

Now I ask you why would you need anything more then that or want to complicate the process by needing machine work done to the heads?? Those springs will handle anything that a huei injected 7.3 can throw at it with no machine work required!!


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[GroffMotorsports]

I just want to clarify some information on this topic. I (Groff Motorsports) am the supplier/builder of these valve springs that are in question here. Jody at DP-Tuner is a friend of mine and I had developed these for my 7.3L a few years ago after we had some issues with my personal truck. I am a drag racing engine and chassis shop to give you a little back ground of my experience and have been in business sense 1999. I supply only DP-Tuner with these parts. I am having these springs built to my specifications and there are no retainers that are being made to fit them other than the ones we build. We machine the retainers in house out of a retainer blanks that my supplier builds. The valve keepers are common part to the race industry. The retainers and keepers are chromoly. I have been running these in my truck for several years now trouble free and have developed them from the ground up. So to answer a few questions that are going to be asked, Yes they are beehive springs, Yes they are a true drop in springs, Yes they use the stock spring locator/seal assembly, and No there is no need for any machining. The racer side of me says that you should always check spring pressures and and installed heights and shim all valve springs to the correct and same installed heights but I designed this so that for 99% of the people installing them can simply swap there’s for these without needing to install shims at all or check all of that stuff. Keep in mind that if you have had head work done (valve job, ect.) that you should check installed height due to the valve height potentially changing inside the valve seat. Ok with all that said, To say that a beehive spring is a beehive spring and you can get “X” beehive spring from here or there and it will work is 100% incorrect. Not saying you can't get one and if you can find a retainer that allows you to install it you can install it, but we built ours completely different than most springs being sold as replacements. Most replacement springs are springs that are already available for something else and being made to “fit” the 7.3L application. Ours are not. The way springs are made the higher the closed pressure the higher the open pressure. There is no other way to build them. However there are ways to cheat the way it’s built to keep from hurting other parts. (The “Spring Rate” can be adjusted to certain extents) With a hydraulic roller camshaft we can’t throw a heavy spring in there or it would kill the lifters. Also the 7.3L rocker arm is not up to the task of heavy spring loads for extended periods of time. (Ask us how we know) What happens in forced induction engines (As you increase intake pressure “boost”) the valves have a hard time closing and that action is slowed down and sometimes the valve slows enough to contact the piston. This can even happen if you install “better = heavier” pushrods. (This can happen to intake and exhaust valves) To combat this you add spring pressure, but due to the hydraulic lifter limitations you can’t use a spring that’s very strong or it will overcome the lifters abilities to stay “pumped up” and collapse causing bigger problems. So this is where we came in and developed a spring that is made to add closed pressure while not adding a ton of open pressure (keeping spring rate in check) to keep from killing lifters, pushrods, camshafts, cam bearing, and rocker arms. Is this the complete answer no but I hope to have shed some light on what we are trying to do to combat what the problem really is. If you have any questions I will gladly answer them or you can direct them to DP-Tuner. Thanks GMS 770-559-1746

 

[V-Ref]

Great post!

 

[Hotrodtractor]

I shouldn't have said they are ALL the same. You basically have 3 options the 910s, beehives, and hypermax high rev.

There are plenty of other options out there beyond those three if you look around. Here is a setup that is NOT one of these three that a few trucks were running way back in 2005/2006 time frame. Other options exist, but are seldom discussed because 910s and even the comp beehives are cheap and no one wants to actually have a discussion about anything if its drastically more money or if it involves machine work to make work correctly. Anytime anyone starts to modify anything in an environment where there are very few people modifying it, it gets expensive unless an off the shelf part for a more heavily used application can be dropped in its place (enter the 910s and comp beehives).

 

[Magnum PD]

Almost orgasmic there

 

[TyCorr]

I wouldn't consider the hypermax valve spring overpriced. Are they more than 910s? Of course! A tank of fuel costs more. But people buy that daily. I don't own anything hypermax produced anymore but they produce a very high quality product. It just happens to be costlier than mass produced junk. Well, duh, yea.

 

[SeeYa]

An update to this thread

I just want to clarify some information on this topic. I (Groff Motorsports) am the supplier/builder of these valve springs that are in question here. Jody at DP-Tuner is a friend of mine and I had developed these for my 7.3L a few years ago after we had some issues with my personal truck. I am a drag racing engine and chassis shop to give you a little back ground of my experience and have been in business sense 1999. I supply only DP-Tuner with these parts. I am having these springs built to my specifications and there are no retainers that are being made to fit them other than the ones we build. We machine the retainers in house out of a retainer blanks that my supplier builds. The valve keepers are common part to the race industry. The retainers and keepers are chromoly. I have been running these in my truck for several years now trouble free and have developed them from the ground up. So to answer a few questions that are going to be asked, Yes they are beehive springs, Yes they are a true drop in springs, Yes they use the stock spring locator/seal assembly, and No there is no need for any machining. The racer side of me says that you should always check spring pressures and and installed heights and shim all valve springs to the correct and same installed heights but I designed this so that for 99% of the people installing them can simply swap there’s for these without needing to install shims at all or check all of that stuff. Keep in mind that if you have had head work done (valve job, ect.) that you should check installed height due to the valve height potentially changing inside the valve seat. Ok with all that said, To say that a beehive spring is a beehive spring and you can get “X” beehive spring from here or there and it will work is 100% incorrect. Not saying you can't get one and if you can find a retainer that allows you to install it you can install it, but we built ours completely different than most springs being sold as replacements. Most replacement springs are springs that are already available for something else and being made to “fit” the 7.3L application. Ours are not. The way springs are made the higher the closed pressure the higher the open pressure. There is no other way to build them. However there are ways to cheat the way it’s built to keep from hurting other parts. (The “Spring Rate” can be adjusted to certain extents) With a hydraulic roller camshaft we can’t throw a heavy spring in there or it would kill the lifters. Also the 7.3L rocker arm is not up to the task of heavy spring loads for extended periods of time. (Ask us how we know) What happens in forced induction engines (As you increase intake pressure “boost”) the valves have a hard time closing and that action is slowed down and sometimes the valve slows enough to contact the piston. This can even happen if you install “better = heavier” pushrods. (This can happen to intake and exhaust valves) To combat this you add spring pressure, but due to the hydraulic lifter limitations you can’t use a spring that’s very strong or it will overcome the lifters abilities to stay “pumped up” and collapse causing bigger problems. So this is where we came in and developed a spring that is made to add closed pressure while not adding a ton of open pressure (keeping spring rate in check) to keep from killing lifters, pushrods, camshafts, cam bearing, and rocker arms. Is this the complete answer no but I hope to have shed some light on what we are trying to do to combat what the problem really is. If you have any questions I will gladly answer them or you can direct them to DP-Tuner. Thanks GMS 770-559-1746

We have 20 sets of Groff Motorsports Valve Springs kit in stock. GMS outlined what this kit offers. The info is in his post above. We are waiting on shipping boxes to arrive and will be shipping week of June 23rd. Anyone interested please contact Jody at ext 801 or Justin at ext.804. We do not have these on our site yet. We should have them up when we get back from vacation 6/23. Justin can do a manual order until then if you want to secure a set.


Thanks

~Diane

 

[2001 Power Stroker]

Would valve springs be needed on a stockfish truck example being intake, exhaust, chip or are they only needed when you go big with injectors and rpm's? Im a bit of a noobie when it comes to the 7.3 so any info you guys could share i would be grateful!

 

[TyCorr]

Would valve springs be needed on a stockfish truck example being intake, exhaust, chip or are they only needed when you go big with injectors and rpm's? Im a bit of a noobie when it comes to the 7.3 so any info you guys could share i would be grateful!

Not to be a literal dick but yes every truck has valve springs. Do you NEED them? Upgraded ones? Probably not. But you probably dont need a chip or upgraded turbo either. If you beat the hell out of a stock truck it should probably have upgraded springs and push rods.

Then there are guys running middle road sized injectors with a bone stock motors but they dont beat them senselessly and keep an eye on tuning and gauges.

 

[2001 Power Stroker]

lol i know they have valve springs i guess i should have clarified better would upgraded valve springs be in order, anyway thank you for the clarification.

 

[TyCorr]

It depends on a few things. Its something that should be done.

 

[m j]

I shouldn't have said they are ALL the same. You basically have 3 options the 910s, beehives, and hypermax high rev. The hypermax spring are wayyy over priced also not to mention they require machining of the heads. Why would anyone want to use those when there are drop in springs that perform the same if not better. Your heads don't care the brand of spring that is installed just that it closes the valves when its supposed to and keeps them closed when supposed too.

People keep on saying that 910s are junk which is not true. They have there place depending on the rpm boost and back pressure that your motor will see. It is the installation errors that makes 910s give problems it is as simple as you need X amount of seat pressure that is achieved by a specific installed height for Y amount of boost or back pressure.

Lets take these swamps spring that are right at $700 for springs, locks, retainers, and seals. They are essentially beehives and could be bought from other sources as well.

Anyway they have a spring rate of 400lbs/in of travel and a spring pressure of [email protected] installed height. Let's say that we have a pretty hot setup that is running around 60psi of boost and 80psi of back pressure. Take your valve which has a surface area of 2.19in2 multiply that by the boost and back pressure. That gives you a minimum seat pressure needed to keep that valve closed under those conditions which is 131.4lbs for intake valve and 175.2lbs for the exhaust. There a safe seat pressure would be about 180lbs. That your spring and which is [email protected] then it will be [email protected] which is sufficient and at stock can lift would be [email protected] lift and [email protected] lift with an aftermarket cam. That is about the limit that you want to go on the max lift pressure unless modifications in the lifters to prevent collapsing or using solid lifters.

Now I ask you why would you need anything more then that or want to complicate the process by needing machine work done to the heads?? Those springs will handle anything that a huei injected 7.3 can throw at it with no machine work required!!


Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

damn. is that math correct? I think mine are at 155# guess I am shimming the exhaust some