6L Headers... A few questions..

[Craig@MFI]

I was just asking, and FWIW shawn switched to an s400 frame turbo the last go around of mods...

I would like to see harder numbers because like you said you went to headers and a new exhaust housing, so which did the work housing or the headers? I dont really know, plus your intake, which im betting is where the most of your gains were achieved

Didn't know he changed
We went to a big exhaust housing this year so that didn't help us at all but we don't have a problem spoiling it up at all

 

[strokin6L]

http://powerstrokenation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104555
MPD's manifolds
http://www.shop.blackwidowdiesel.com/product.sc?productId=594&categoryId=216
black widow diesel manifolds

Powerstroked162, your right i have no first hand experience with headers or aftermarket manifolds yet, but have been thinking about and looking into the manifolds for my truck by getting some feedback from some who are running them. Was just trying to share what was seen/noticed with running the aftermarket manifolds was all. Didn't mean to piss in your cheerios bud! I understand that either type isn't for anyone nor is spending that much. I guess whats making it so frustrating for us guys is that some have issues with them and some don't. It's just hard to wanna spend the money to take the risk and hope your the one that doesn't have an issue. If or when i do get a set, i hope i see the same results and have no issues like some, but for now i have other things on the list i want for the truck before aftermarket manifolds.

 

[Extended Power]

Murff Racing had a nice set, but have been reading more, "Can't get ahold of anyone" threads on them too, sooooo......

 

[PTSUPERD]

Murff Racing had a nice set, but have been reading more, "Can't get ahold of anyone" threads on them too, sooooo......

Ya...not sure if they are still around?

 

[Powerstroked162]

Same set as elite. BAE's

 

[389sixpack]

Ask tadd how much boost his drag truck made before blowing a header? We can measure atmospheres psi bar kpi and then we will factor in time... easier to.measure in seconds... less decimal points to figure in

Tell me how many big HP diesel's aren't making over 50 psi of boost... more that. 500 HP to David

These headers get destroyed under pressure, PERIOD. There is a reason why people don't run them. I'm just waiting for David to tell us it's because they don't know how to "properly" setup their powerplant LOL

LOL you two make me laugh. Pressure has absolutely nothing to do with your headers cracking. You both were using BAE headers. Their designs have some problems. Multiple segmented butt weldments that under thermal expansion and thermal shock developed cracks within the welds and heat affected zones. Thermal stresses for expansion caused those cracks. I would have no problem taking their headers and pumping them up to several hundred psi, just not thermal cycling them.

OK, so let me get this strait so that everyone here understands, both of you are saying headers don't work or are not needed because 1 they really don't work or 2 you had a problem with a header product as in a defect in material and workmanship and now your bichin about it
Simply say what your complaint is and the thread will die out and readers can then make an informed decision.

I have built trucks with and without headers and in every case the truck with the headers spooled and responded quicker,that's from experience not opinion.

I will agree with this.

Same set as elite. BAE's

Face it, headers DO work on any engine. That said it is also noted that header design is critical to how well they work and the benefits they provide. They may not give you what you expect with your particular setups, but headers do provide benefits. Despite you both having problems with headers from the same mfg, doesn't mean headers don't work, just that you got a minimally design products that were subject to failure from poor mechanical design that didn't allow for the thermal expansion and the welding process that had such large brittle areas.

 

[Dzchey21]

LOL you two make me laugh. Pressure has absolutely nothing to do with your headers cracking. You both were using BAE headers. Their designs have some problems. Multiple segmented butt weldments that under thermal expansion and thermal shock developed cracks within the welds and heat affected zones. Thermal stresses for expansion caused those cracks. I would have no problem taking their headers and pumping them up to several hundred psi, just not thermal cycling them.


I will agree with this.



Face it, headers DO work on any engine. That said it is also noted that header design is critical to how well they work and the benefits they provide. They may not give you what you expect with your particular setups, but headers do provide benefits. Despite you both having problems with headers from the same mfg, doesn't mean headers don't work, just that you got a minimally design products that were subject to failure from poor mechanical design that didn't allow for the thermal expansion and the welding process that had such large brittle areas.

Prove it

 

[389sixpack]

Prove it

LMAO - You've had one set of headers in your entire young life and they cracked after 50 miles - so, therefore, headers don't work..... :wtf: LOL

Yeah, you're right Dustin, headers don't work :morons: LOL

You go right on with this belief, I personaly don't give a crap, but 40 years of racing background can tell you that they do. The particular ones you may of tried may not of been well design (as was apparent by there longevity) but properly design and built will show a benefit...


.

 

[Powerstroked162]

Nigel, Dustin and I are not saying there's isn't merit to the theory and what they can do in Gasoline engines, however, the numbers I've seen provided by the manufacturer of the product is NOT worth the $1250 in price for something that doesn't last, hold up, stay in place, etc., etc., You will never convince me any other way. Facts are facts and at the end of the day, they are not worth it. PERIOD

You build a set that get flowed on a bench that prove they can dramatically increase performance such as they do in a Gasoline engine as well as make them out of the proper material with quality welds and bends in them, I will be the first person to step in and buy, but not one second before they are legitimately proven in more then one area with factual numbers and data. This johnny come-lately "Well they worked in my truck and a customers truck sooooo your dumb" attitude doesn't cut it.

If I could, I would send you my set to have you inspect.

 

[Powerstroke Racer]

Nigel, Dustin and I are not saying there's isn't merit to the theory and what they can do in Gasoline engines, however, the numbers I've seen provided by the manufacturer of the product is NOT worth the $1250 in price for something that doesn't last, hold up, stay in place, etc., etc., You will never convince me any other way. Facts are facts and at the end of the day, they are not worth it. PERIOD

You build a set that get flowed on a bench that prove they can dramatically increase performance such as they do in a Gasoline engine as well as make them out of the proper material with quality welds and bends in them, I will be the first person to step in and buy, but not one second before they are legitimately proven in more then one area with factual numbers and data. This johnny come-lately "Well they worked in my truck and a customers truck sooooo your dumb" attitude doesn't cut it.

If I could, I would send you my set to have you inspect.

lol whenever you are ready, Single turbo fuel only.

Ignorance has no bounds.

 

[Dzchey21]

All i was asking for nigel, was show me some PROOF that they work on a 7.3, 6.0 or a 6.4 i do understand that the theory behind them is there i really do, i would have NEVER got a set if i didnt think there was some benift to them... thats the honest truth.

I just want number is all, someone please chime in with some actual numbers, i am just curious to how much benifit is actually there

 

[SIX_OHH]

This is kinda like the 7.3 cam thing aint it?

 

[Powerstroke Racer]

All i was asking for nigel, was show me some PROOF that they work on a 7.3, 6.0 or a 6.4 i do understand that the theory behind them is there i really do, i would have NEVER got a set if i didnt think there was some benift to them... thats the honest truth.

I just want number is all, someone please chime in with some actual numbers, i am just curious to how much benifit is actually there

serious question, if I gave you an actual number, say they made 50 horsepower at 3500 rpm, what would you do with that??? and how would you use it???

 

[Powerstroke Racer]

This is kinda like the 7.3 cam thing aint it?

Exactly, and the ported head thingy bob.

 

[Dzchey21]

serious question, if I gave you an actual number, say they made 50 horsepower at 3500 rpm, what would you do with that??? and how would you use it???

Im talking manifolds netted 15 psi of boost at 2100 rpm,
Headers netting 15 psi of boost at 1900 rpm

Or dyno numbers, made 450 hp at 2300 rpm with manifolds
made 450 at 2100 with headers,

What other kind of numbers would i be talking about?

you could dyno back to back and probably just go off the torque number as long as your rolling into it and not loading the turbo down with the brake on the rollers, hell at this point, any number would be better than what this thread has produced

 

[SIX_OHH]

Exactly, and the ported head thingy bob.

bob?

 

[Powerstroked162]

lol whenever you are ready, Single turbo fuel only.

Ignorance has no bounds.

You have FAR to many races you've called others out to, or been called out for, to complete before you ever get a shot at me. Should that time come sooner then the IRS reposessing what you own, I will decline to WOP LOL

Ignorance is what you pray on.

Exactly, and the ported head thingy bob.

This thread is about headers and you trying to provide FACTUAL data that what is out there currently works.... You have yet to do that, and probably wont

As I stated, until these things are proven with factual data,backed up with legitimate info by somebody unbiased, I will stick to what I have said time and time again.... they are not worth the money you spend on them because the gains are not there to justify it. PERIOD

David, you can deny it, say we are IDE's, whatever, but all you have to do is prove it, prove it and be done.... but you wont because you know you cant because you have no factual data and proof other then your azz meter or "trap speed" LOL

 

[strokin6L]

bob?

not bob... it's "thingy bob". It's a figure of speech.

 

[Extended Power]

So...do the headers in question look like pipe tees welded together, or actual tube headers?

 

[6.0dirtworker]

Well looking back I wouldn't of spent the money on the header sale since thermal expansion has been the key problem. I really would try before and after results but I'm not going to lift my cab twice for it. Cab on swap is definitely not happening. Now after reading this, I would rather have them tested before I even attempt to try these headers out. And I was about to put this motor back together, now I'm stumped.