7.3 internals

Bobby@cp · Dec 23, 2012

Project20v said:
I'm running a 6.7 in my '99. It's not that hard and parts for the swap are readily available. I don't know about the 6.4 or Scorpion, but I've never seen one as a conversion.

Wtf is the scorpion?

Oh wait that was the CODE NAME for the 6.7 psd

Sent from the left lane with the hammer down...

Project20v · Dec 23, 2012

Yes, this is a secret term used to confuse you! No, I just say Scorpion to distinguish it from the Cummins 6.7.. You know you start throwing 6.7 this and that around and a couple pages later no one knows what the hell your'e talking about. ?? I'm gonna start calling my 6.7 a Raptor. I have a 3018 raptor, 660r raptor, 350 raptor, 50 raptor and an 80 raptor, so I'll just keep the trend going.

TyCorr · Dec 23, 2012

Project20v said:
Yes, this is a secret term used to confuse you! No, I just say Scorpion to distinguish it from the Cummins 6.7.. You know you start throwing 6.7 this and that around and a couple pages later no one knows what the hell your'e talking about. ?? I'm gonna start calling my 6.7 a Raptor. I have a 3018 raptor, 660r raptor, 350 raptor, 50 raptor and an 80 raptor, so I'll just keep the trend going.

Good point! Ive gotten.confused in context.before.about which 6-7 somebody was.talking about.

85_305 · Dec 23, 2012

Project20v said:
I'm running a 6.7 in my '99. It's not that hard and parts for the swap are readily available. I don't know about the 6.4 or Scorpion, but I've never seen one as a conversion.

The reason I'm a Cummins fan is because of the low end torque. You loose 2 cylinders and that is made up with stroke, stroke is torque. I think the V8's can make horspower a bit easier, but I'm a torque guy. I can tell you from first hand experience that the Cummins pulls out of the hole stronger than any V8 I've driven. I'm not a racer, I like a little offroading, and do lots of towing.

I want to be clear that I'm not a Powerstroke hater. I saw downfalls of my 7.3, put it all out on paper and determined that the smart money and my interests were best served with a Cummins swap. I probably never would have ditched my 7.3 had it not failed, I really liked it except for the noise and smoke and somewhat weak bottom end (torque).

Not knocking you or your truck, but the low-end grunt of the i6 is nearly non-existant if you compare power curves/dyno plots. I'm talking, hp/tq is nearly identical or a few hundred rpm off of the i6. That's an outdated ideology that an i6 has more lower end torque, unless somebody wants to play semantics and call 100-200rpm lower torque peak as "superior torque".
I digress, that's still pretty neat that you did such a conversion, and is quite a rarity I must say. I still think swapped Cats and Detroits is a much cooler swap than the run of the mill C swap.

Pics or vids of your truck? Interested in checking it out.

backwoodsboy · Dec 23, 2012

Project20v said:
Yes, this is a secret term used to confuse you! No, I just say Scorpion to distinguish it from the Cummins 6.7.. You know you start throwing 6.7 this and that around and a couple pages later no one knows what the hell your'e talking about. ?? I'm gonna start calling my 6.7 a Raptor. I have a 3018 raptor, 660r raptor, 350 raptor, 50 raptor and an 80 raptor, so I'll just keep the trend going.

But then there's the issue of confusion with the 6.2 raptor ford gassers

Bobby@cp · Dec 23, 2012

crowz said:
Welcome aboard

Because they are too last to type cummings or psd

Sent from the left lane with the hammer down...

PowerstrokeJunkie · Dec 23, 2012

It seems like many people don't know that the 6.7 is NOT a powerstroke.

Bobby@cp · Dec 23, 2012

Bobby@cp said:
Because they are too last to type cummings or psd

Sent from the left lane with the hammer down...

Damn my fat thumb.....

Too lazy lol

Sent from the left lane with the hammer down...

Project20v · Dec 23, 2012

85_305 said:
Not knocking you or your truck, but the low-end grunt of the i6 is nearly non-existant if you compare power curves/dyno plots. I'm talking, hp/tq is nearly identical or a few hundred rpm off of the i6. That's an outdated ideology that an i6 has more lower end torque, unless somebody wants to play semantics and call 100-200rpm lower torque peak as "superior torque".
I digress, that's still pretty neat that you did such a conversion, and is quite a rarity I must say. I still think swapped Cats and Detroits is a much cooler swap than the run of the mill C swap.

Pics or vids of your truck? Interested in checking it out.

I disagree. What Cat or Detroit is going to fit in a Superduty? Even a C7 uses hydraulic injectors. I had one in my service truck that I drove for 5 years and I loved it, but it's potential is limited by the injection system. I did however have tons of low end, the type that comes from an I6.

The billion dollar industry that relies on torque ie. big rigs, tug boats, heavy equip. stick with the I6 design for a reason. Even Ford puts the Cummins in the F650 on up.

Have you put a V8 and I6 diesel head to head with a load? With no load you may not tell the difference or even feel that the V8 has the edge in the upper rpm. The difference is the low end, moving the load.

I'm not talking about drag racing, but pulling power. I'm no genious, but I have been a diesel mechanic for 17 years in the heavy equipment industry. Part of my job is performance testing and I have operated all types of equipment in an array of configurations and my choice is the I-6. Just my opinion. What can you show to back up the V8/I6 low end comparison? 200rpm is a significant difference when you are trying to move something.

BTW the way my build thread is here: http://powerstrokenation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132705&highlight=

FWIW the Cummins low end would have pulled the guts out of my fairly modest 7.3. I have some videos of my 7.3 and still need to get some of my 6.7. I'll post them up eventually on my build thread.

7.3forlife · Dec 23, 2012

I dont know about a cummins having more low end my truck even as is gets every cummins off the line then they start to pull on me but really not all that hard. On the drag strip i was running consistent 17.6s and the cummins were only running 17.2s and 3s they weren't even a whole second faster than mine and they were a whole lot lighter to...

85_305 · Dec 23, 2012

PowerstrokeJunkie said:
It seems like many people don't know that the 6.7 is NOT a powerstroke.

Well, technically its still called a powerstroke, as evident by the fender badges. But no International doesn't build it, good old Ford builds it.

Project20v said:
I disagree. What Cat or Detroit is going to fit in a Superduty? Even a C7 uses hydraulic injectors. I had one in my service truck that I drove for 5 years and I loved it, but it's potential is limited by the injection system. I did however have tons of low end, the type that comes from an I6.

The billion dollar industry that relies on torque ie. big rigs, tug boats, heavy equip. stick with the I6 design for a reason. Even Ford puts the Cummins in the F650 on up.

Have you put a V8 and I6 diesel head to head with a load? With no load you may not tell the difference or even feel that the V8 has the edge in the upper rpm. The difference is the low end, moving the load.

I'm not talking about drag racing, but pulling power. I'm no genious, but I have been a diesel mechanic for 17 years in the heavy equipment industry. Part of my job is performance testing and I have operated all types of equipment in an array of configurations and my choice is the I-6. Just my opinion. What can you show to back up the V8/I6 low end comparison? 200rpm is a significant difference when you are trying to move something.

BTW the way my build thread is here: http://powerstrokenation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132705&highlight=

FWIW the Cummins low end would have pulled the guts out of my fairly modest 7.3. I have some videos of my 7.3 and still need to get some of my 6.7. I'll post them up eventually on my build thread.

Thanks for the link! Gonna check that out.

As far as inline vs v-series. If you look at marine applications (tugs, liners, etc), locomotives, and the big huge industrial equipment they all use v-series diesels. Alas, not typically v8s... But v12s, v16, v24 etc. The v-series provides far more revs and mid/high end power when the inlines start wheezing.

Prime example, lots of military land equipment is v-series. Anything in the water (worth mentioning, anyhow) is v-series. Tankers are v-series. Old tanks are v-series. Heavy duty construction equipment, especially that of mining equipment is v-series.

The reason OTR vehicles use inlines is because any dumbass hick can fix it when it breaks (don't mean you, speaking in general). Also, inlines are easier to fix on the side of the road. And lastly, inlines are easier to make meet emissions.

Project20v · Dec 23, 2012

As far as inline vs v-series. If you look at marine applications (tugs, liners, etc), locomotives, and the big huge industrial equipment they all use v-series diesels. Alas, not typically v8s... But v12s, v16, v24 etc. The v-series provides far more revs and mid/high end power when the inlines start wheezing.

Prime example, lots of military land equipment is v-series. Anything in the water (worth mentioning, anyhow) is v-series. Tankers are v-series. Old tanks are v-series. Heavy duty construction equipment, especially that of mining equipment is v-series.

The reason OTR vehicles use inlines is because any dumbass hick can fix it when it breaks (don't mean you, speaking in general). Also, inlines are easier to fix on the side of the road. And lastly, inlines are easier to make meet emissions.

I disagree and yes there are a lot of V's in the shipping industry, depends on the application. You and I are not going to come to a conclusion on this and there may not be one. My seat of the pants with a comparable displacement and fuel system is that the I6 is stronger. That is all I need to make a engine decision.

I don't think your repair generalizations are accurate either. You need to have some context, are we talking about a 1980 Cummins or a 2012, or a IDI vs. a Scorpion? The available space become the pain with repairs.

Emissions have nothing to do with configuration....

davey99ps · Dec 23, 2012

To the op, a really fun set-up for your truck would be a 38r(it's a drop in ball bearing charger), either a set of stg 2's or small hybrids, a regulated return, gauges, an some decent tunes. That'll get you well over the 400hp mark, an there's been a few that have tipped a hair over 500hp with a 38r an some hybrids.

Not to discourage you, but if this truck is your dd, tow truck, work truck, an only truck, I wouldn't push it past 550hp. Once you get into the 600's, they stop being as reliable an you end up working on them more an tweaking things constantly. Also, if you've never driven a true 500hp truck before, you'd be surprised how fun it is. It's fast enough to get in trouble with, but still fairly reliable.

Project20v · Dec 23, 2012

davey99ps said:
To the op, a really fun set-up for your truck would be a 38r(it's a drop in ball bearing charger), either a set of stg 2's or small hybrids, a regulated return, gauges, an some decent tunes. That'll get you well over the 400hp mark, an there's been a few that have tipped a hair over 500hp with a 38r an some hybrids.

Not to discourage you, but if this truck is your dd, tow truck, work truck, an only truck, I wouldn't push it past 550hp. Once you get into the 600's, they stop being as reliable an you end up working on them more an tweaking things constantly. Also, if you've never driven a true 500hp truck before, you'd be surprised how fun it is. It's fast enough to get in trouble with, but still fairly reliable.

The 38R was awesome on my 7.3, but be warned it is loud, not whistle loud, but fire engine siren loud!

Hotrodtractor · Dec 23, 2012

2000wa250 said:
Hrt got anymore info on those roller rockers? First I've seen of them on a 7.3 application and a little interested....feel free to pm me if we don't want to clutter up this thread anymore

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

Those are Wipe Out pieces built by Harland Sharp circa 2006 time frame. There have been improvements and design changes since this rendition of them. A few others I know are working on versions of their own. Not needed or desired for a street app.

DocBar · Dec 23, 2012

Project20v said:
The 38R was awesome on my 7.3, but be warned it is loud, not whistle loud, but fire engine siren loud!

I'm so sick of the sound my 38R makes I'd almost give it away. I wish Pius would get back to me on the primary turbo so I could finish my compound set up.

I was in Barnesville Georgia 3 weeks ago and now I'm in Long Beach, Ca. Pulling a 5er 1600miles then driving another 800 miles in that time frame might have something to do with it.

7.3forlife · Dec 23, 2012

I found a pretty good deal on a s366 and i have a buddy that has a s480 he'll sell me cheap the rest is just time consuming fab work. And i already got gauges and a regulated return. Im ordering a set of 300/200s and hpop and hopefully studs Friday. And sadly i have a e99 so the 38r isnt just a drop in. But no doubt thats a good set up. 500-550 is were im shooting. I have tw tunes. Do you think i should stick with tw or go to gearheads tunes. Theres a few guys in casper with 250/100s and gear head tunes and they flat walk on my truck worse than any cummins have. Minus the time it will take to fab up the compounds and a t4 conversion i can pick up a s366 and s480 for right around the same price as a 38r and a tad less than goin with riffraffs late 99 conversion with a 38r. Hell i figure its worth a try. And i got a few other rigs sittin at the house to drive if this breaks down lol

davey99ps · Dec 24, 2012

The 366 is nice cuz it lights quick, but alotta guys that have ran it as a single were less than pleased with the longevity. However, if you gate it properly it should work. I'm not that great with turbo sizing for compounds but someone like "hotrodtractor" could get you pointed in the right direction if he's got time. As for tunes, that's gonna come down to personal preferences, there's people that wouldn't go anywhere but Gearhead, an the same goes for TW