160/100 vs 205/30 Injector Testing

[Zeb]

It is funny you say that... I was on facebook and mentioned that we would be running a .91ar and everyone jumped saying only an idiot would run a .91 and that 1.0 is the way to go.

.91 and don’t look back. :thumbsup:
I like to drive em pretty hard. I’d run an .83 if it were available without having to custom machine one......
I wonder how many of those FB people giving advice have any actual experience.

 

[jeremiahmercier]

S369 is on... results coming soon.

Anyone curious what size the BASB turbos is????
64.5/68/1.10 (could be a 1.0 housing... its hard to tell)

Basically an s300 with 64.5sxe compressor wheel but old style s300 cover. Smaller 76x68 s300 turbine wheel.

Mine for sure was a 1.10, loved the BASB for a tow rig, spooled incredibly fast, and never had to look at an egt guage again

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[Strokersace]

It is funny you say that... I was on facebook and mentioned that we would be running a .91ar and everyone jumped saying only an idiot would run a .91 and that 1.0 is the way to go.

Well you were on Facebook… Where most idiots live!

 

[jbolen323]

Mine for sure was a 1.10, loved the BASB for a tow rig, spooled incredibly fast, and never had to look at an egt guage again

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just got off the phone and update towing the same backhoe roughly 25klbs + gross. Seems that basically it seems to light around 1800-2000 when the basb was getting it going at 1600-1700, so a 200-300 rpms change. Just doing some freeway city stop and go traffic right now across phoenix.

 

[psduser1]

just got off the phone and update towing the same backhoe roughly 25klbs + gross. Seems that basically it seems to light around 1800-2000 when the basb was getting it going at 1600-1700, so a 200-300 rpms change. Just doing some freeway city stop and go traffic right now across phoenix.

I've gotta say-wtf.

Lighting off at 16-1700 is a decent rpm.

Trouble is, I'm doing that with a 38r.

I'm not sure if you are running an older style t4, a basb, or a sxe model.

Any of the above, a side from the kc drop in, are a substantial cost increase.
Not trying to be a dic, just saying.

Sell me the difference, to be blunt.
FWIW, I have over 200k on the old fashioned 38r, never missed a beat, with 80% over a codes.

 

[jeremiahmercier]

I've gotta say-wtf.



Lighting off at 16-1700 is a decent rpm.



Trouble is, I'm doing that with a 38r.



I'm not sure if you are running an older style t4, a basb, or a sxe model.



Any of the above, a side from the kc drop in, are a substantial cost increase.

Not trying to be a dic, just saying.



Sell me the difference, to be blunt.

FWIW, I have over 200k on the old fashioned 38r, never missed a beat, with 80% over a codes.

Mine started to lite around 13-1400, and was at full spool by 16-1700, to me the basb was a much better turbo than the 38r which is currently on our 02. Other than that, the 38r is a massive improvement over the stock 02 turbo, but to me, if I were to do another 7.3, it would be a basb or newer SXE 300 series, or possibly a KC version of the 38r

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[jbolen323]

I've gotta say-wtf.

Sell me the difference, to be blunt.
FWIW, I have over 200k on the old fashioned 38r, never missed a beat, with 80% over a codes.

This came from our dyno testing on our other truck that we still are working with on the rest of the injectors. Currently this truck is on 205cc/30% as well against my 205cc/30% truck. Basically is drop in versus t4 testing going on here since its what everyone wants to know. This is a graph comparing the ball bearing 38r versus our journal bearing 300x turbo lineup.

to be blunt, I would never want you to sell your turbo to upgrade its not worth it. When it does fail and its time however, there is a lot of options available compared to a decade ago.



Im prob actually going to throw the basb on my excursion as soon im done rebuilding the motor on it, just cause I have a spare set of irate pipes... if not it would hands down be one of our new 300x turbos, more specifically 63/73

I have to ask what tuning do you have / run ? I pretty much have over 20 sets for each of my trucks with live tuning as well from the top guys. A lot of people get fixed on a single tuner which is somewhat bad in a way in my opinion. When I sell a customer I always suggest just buying a race / daily tune from each down the road because of the differences. Ive lost count on how many local truck setups ive installed here in Arizona with setups all over the place.

My personal daily is a s472sxe with 350s on a 6" lift on 37s with a 2400 stall and to be honest it would compare to driving a on stock 7.3 tuned in terms of drivability.... but with another 300hp behind it.

 

[KCTurbos]

I hate describing when a turbo lights/spools because that means different things to different people.

WTF does "full spool" mean... finally building more than 10psi of boost? Max boost? etc... it is so confusing.

Not ragging on anyone. Just saying it can be hard to exactly compare apples and apples when it comes to describing "spool up"

 

[TMCCOY]

What I look for is in 4th, TC locked, and lugging at about 13-1400 and start giving it throttle. If my mechanical (electric is not fine enough) boost gauge starts showing boost, I'm calling that as the start. so for the 366 with a 1.0 AR housing that was 1500 rpm. With the .91 housing, it is down to 1350 rpm.

 

[Zeb]

For me, spooled, lit, whatever you want to call it, is when the boost gauge acts like it’s connected to the throttle.

 

[KCTurbos]

To me... spooled is when it is connected to the throttle. Fully lit is when it is flying up towards max boost.

But I was just pointing out... that those are not very technical/data filled words. That is why I like putting everything on a dyno graph because it becomes much less subjective.

 

[Back woods]

What I look for is in 4th, TC locked, and lugging at about 13-1400 and start giving it throttle. If my mechanical (electric is not fine enough) boost gauge starts showing boost, I'm calling that as the start. so for the 366 with a 1.0 AR housing that was 1500 rpm. With the .91 housing, it is down to 1350 rpm.

Does the 366/.91 really light that low?

 

[The Brad]

Does the 366/.91 really light that low?

I haven’t mikeeg002 post in a while, but this is his 366/74/1.0 with 238/100s making 15 psi at 1500rpm while towing heavy.

https://youtu.be/powB5VLW0_s

 

[KCTurbos]

I haven’t mikeeg002 post in a while, but this is his 366/74/1.0 with 238/100s making 15 psi at 1500rpm while towing heavy.

https://youtu.be/powB5VLW0_s

Man I hate posts like this... because some guy is going to read this and think towing at 1500rpms at 15psi is normal.


This post would be much better suited stating... If you try as hard as you can, then you can barely make 15psi at 1500rpms while slowing pushing egts up to 1200 degrees while slowing spooling the turbo over a 20 second period and bouncing off the surge line. Safe to assume that is a stick? Because most autos would have downshifted long before that.


Not trying to sound like a Dick... but you can't imagine how many hours I spend on the phone/email working with people with unrealistic expectations they read about online.

 

[Back woods]

Stick shift for sure. What could be expected with an automatic in that situation, 6-7psi max?

 

[TMCCOY]

Does the 366/.91 really light that low?

It does start to show boost at that point with moderate roll into throttle, any more throttle and the transmission will downshift. I use this technique to quantify where I start to see boost.

The tune has a lot to do with how quick and how much boost is seen. My DD tune seems to top out around 25-30psi and get there "fairly quick" while my hotter (not hottest) tune will hit 40 "really quick".

 

[psduser1]

This came from our dyno testing on our other truck that we still are working with on the rest of the injectors. Currently this truck is on 205cc/30% as well against my 205cc/30% truck. Basically is drop in versus t4 testing going on here since its what everyone wants to know. This is a graph comparing the ball bearing 38r versus our journal bearing 300x turbo lineup.

to be blunt, I would never want you to sell your turbo to upgrade its not worth it. When it does fail and its time however, there is a lot of options available compared to a decade ago.



Im prob actually going to throw the basb on my excursion as soon im done rebuilding the motor on it, just cause I have a spare set of irate pipes... if not it would hands down be one of our new 300x turbos, more specifically 63/73

I have to ask what tuning do you have / run ? I pretty much have over 20 sets for each of my trucks with live tuning as well from the top guys. A lot of people get fixed on a single tuner which is somewhat bad in a way in my opinion. When I sell a customer I always suggest just buying a race / daily tune from each down the road because of the differences. Ive lost count on how many local truck setups ive installed here in Arizona with setups all over the place.

My personal daily is a s472sxe with 350s on a 6" lift on 37s with a 2400 stall and to be honest it would compare to driving a on stock 7.3 tuned in terms of drivability.... but with another 300hp behind it.

Thank you for a clear post, jbolen.
I know you guys are trying to clarify actual numbers, not just sotp "feeling", and my intent was not to stir the pot! I've got three trucks, all with the 38r, and it is simple and effective.
Knowing now what I didn't know 10 years ago, I would agree with the t4/sxe swap, in lieu of the stock dropin options. I think those are a definite improvement over the gtp turboes, but far from the "best ever", lol.
Fwiw, I'm a single tuner guy, cause Matt's tunes work out of the box-back to the 80% statement, lol. Two of my trucks are work trucks, and mama drives the other one, so I dont have to be too fussy.

I still haven't given up on my compound dd, just gotta find a good donor truck! A more efficient turbo might even be more critical in that application.

 

[The Brad]

Man I hate posts like this... because some guy is going to read this and think towing at 1500rpms at 15psi is normal.


This post would be much better suited stating... If you try as hard as you can, then you can barely make 15psi at 1500rpms while slowing pushing egts up to 1200 degrees while slowing spooling the turbo over a 20 second period and bouncing off the surge line. Safe to assume that is a stick? Because most autos would have downshifted long before that.


Not trying to sound like a Dick... but you can't imagine how many hours I spend on the phone/email working with people with unrealistic expectations they read about online.

That video wasn’t meant to depict normal towing, just showing what it’s capable of. Anyone who ties like that normally deserves to throw a rod. Bouncing off the surge line? Maybe, but it’s also a great indicator of the turbo’s drivability and shows that EGTs will NEVER be an issue at normal towing rpm. That was the whole point of the video. With all of the newer 8 & 10 speed transmissions, it’s nice to be able to use more of our rpm range without having to keep revs high to keep EGTs down.

 

[Bmcgarvie]

Definitely POS injectors. That’s what PIS should’ve been called. My 175/80’s failed in less than a year. Got FF 180/80’s and not only did the truck idle better, and smoke less, they were quieter across the board and 250k miles later, still running strong!

How did they fail? What symptoms did they show.

 

[PSD POWER007]

How did they fail? What symptoms did they show.

They started passing oil internally into the fuel. Truck would drink about a gallon of oil every 100 miles or so. Ryan at FF said it was very rare but can happen.