200% nozzle = great tow pig

SkySki Jason · Aug 8, 2011

I forgot to mention I have a bunch of stickers - thats prolly why the dyno #'s look so good... :toast:

Charles · Aug 8, 2011

My truck dynos over 600 on fuel and tows at ~30,000lbs gross at 80+mph without exceeding 1200 degrees all in a single program...

Is it making over 600hp WHILE towing and staying sub 1200 degrees though? NO. Not even close.

Just like a stock nozzle will not make 300hp WHILE staying under 1200 degrees.

If you had a serious load on the truck you would actually USE 300+hp flat-footed for minutes at a time. I just brought 18 round bales back from the farm last week. I was flat-footed most of the way, running ~70 to 75mph AT ~300rwhp. It would steady-state between 1200 and 1250 degrees when it got sucked down to ~70mph on the hills.

That was with 100% nozzles on a set of 300 hybrids and a 38R. That combo is good for ~500rwhp if pushed hard. But then we're well above 1200 degrees, just like stock nozzles at 300rwhp...

Can stock nozzles make 300? Yes. I've made a best of 428 on them... Can they tow sub 1200 degrees? Yes.

Can they do both at the same time? NO.

TARM · Aug 8, 2011

I could be wrong here but I think some are missing what Charles is saying. You may very well have a engine that can produce on a dyno 300-350 HP with stock nozzles. You also in that same tune may be able to tow heavy loads all over the place and never break 1200 degree with that same nozzle. But what you are not doing is towing that max load while actually putting all that 350 HP to the actual ground and keeping 1200 degrees. The HP you are actually producing is far less unless you are driving around WOT which is where you produce that kind of power. Just look at the some big rigs that do actually use that kind of HP to the ground all day long and look at the weight of the loads comparatively. Also look at the massiveness of there drive-line and powertrain.

If you could measure the amount of HP you are actually putting to the ground while you are towing even a very heavy load cruising down the road or up a long incline many I think would be very surprised.

Derek@Vision Diesel · Aug 8, 2011

I get what he is saying and it makes great sense. I love reading posts from a few of you guys (Tarm and Charles included).

estrada5.9 · Aug 8, 2011

I remember reading a while back in a over the road truck .pdf that it only takes 88hp to sustain 80,000lbs at 55mph on flat level surface with no wind.

May be off on the hp a little but I believe its pretty close to that.

TARM · Aug 8, 2011

Exactly.

Powerstroke Cowboy · Aug 8, 2011

estrada5.9 said:
I remember reading a while back in a over the road truck .pdf that it only takes 88hp to sustain 80,000lbs at 55mph on flat level surface with no wind.

May be off on the hp a little but I believe its pretty close to that.

I think it was closer to 280 hp to keep it moving.

But I might not remember right..

TARM · Aug 8, 2011

Maybe, but even still thats at 80,000 lbs and with a truck that is a 20'x10' brick wall worth of wind resistance LOL Not to mention driveline power loss of those huge parts. Compare that to our comparatively match box sized trucks and payloads etc...

SkySki Jason · Aug 9, 2011

I understand completely. So can we make 350hp while towing with bigger nozzles?

If so, is this because we are able to put the fuel in faster and avoid spraying after SOI? Is there more to it than that?

Thank you everyone for the informative thread.

Derek@Vision Diesel · Aug 9, 2011

Can i ask you guys with 200% nozzles what your PW is at a warm idle?

Charles · Aug 9, 2011

SkySki Jason said:
I understand completely. So can we make 350hp while towing with bigger nozzles?

If so, is this because we are able to put the fuel in faster and avoid spraying after SOI? Is there more to it than that?

Thank you everyone for the informative thread.

Yes.

Yes.

I would wager that with proper turbocharging that a 200% EDM nozzle could approach 400rwhp while retaining steady-state EGT sub 1250.

Which is a moot point considering that the driveline can't handle anywhere near that much sustained power transfer. I had hoped the massive (for a pickup) dana 135 in the 550 would fair well, and it's done okay, but after only ~15,000 miles on the fluid I started hearing a little whine out of it and when I pulled the plug the other day the oil is scorched in it too. The ZF6 is also popping out of 4th gear on a regular basis now as well...

It's best to stick to ~300rwhp for sustained towing and not any more. Even that may be too much for a practical service life.

And for a test to anyone wondering how much power they're using... if you don't constantly find yourself flat to the floor and losing speed.... then you're not using the power your program is making.

estrada5.9 · Oct 20, 2011

estrada5.9 said:
I remember reading a while back in a over the road truck .pdf that it only takes 88hp to sustain 80,000lbs at 55mph on flat level surface with no wind.

May be off on the hp a little but I believe its pretty close to that.

Powerstroke Cowboy said:
I think it was closer to 280 hp to keep it moving.

But I might not remember right..

TARM said:
Maybe, but even still thats at 80,000 lbs and with a truck that is a 20'x10' brick wall worth of wind resistance LOL Not to mention driveline power loss of those huge parts. Compare that to our comparatively match box sized trucks and payloads etc...

Found it very good read for sure.

http://cumminsengines.com/assets/pdf/Secrets%20of%20Better%20Fuel%20Economy_whitepaper.pdf

55mph looks to be around 150hp give or take to keep 80,000 moving

Gearhead · Oct 21, 2011

estrada5.9 said:
Found it very good read for sure.

http://cumminsengines.com/assets/pdf/Secrets%20of%20Better%20Fuel%20Economy_whitepaper.pdf

55mph looks to be around 150hp give or take to keep 80,000 moving

and notice it is rated in HP not torque....LOL (and yes i'm baiting Charles)

SDS97_7.3 · Oct 21, 2011

Gearhead said:
and notice it is rated in HP not torque....LOL (and yes i'm baiting Charles)

Well everyone knows torque is the end all be all. And will beat HP any day of the week.

Tree Trimmer · Oct 21, 2011

charles did the same math in that thread on the other place, last time he crushed the guy about hp vs tq. it was like 88, not 280

Curtis@Vision Diesel · Oct 21, 2011

Great to know for when I upgrade my sticks! Thanks 200% nozzles it is for as much as I tow.

Derek@Vision Diesel · Oct 21, 2011

97pwrstroke said:
Great to know for when I upgrade my sticks! Thanks 200% nozzles it is for as much as I tow.

200% nozzles is what ive got!

Scarlet_Nape · Oct 21, 2011

Pocket said:
Heck, you can drive mine..... but that means I get to drive yours too oke:

Derail On:

Curtis, I just got caught up on this thread (great info, BTW), and noticed that Tom quit posting at the mention of driving his truck. LOL

Derail Off

CurtisF · Oct 21, 2011

Scarlet_Nape said:
Derail On:

Curtis, I just got caught up on this thread (great info, BTW), and noticed that Tom quit posting at the mention of driving his truck. LOL

Derail Off

Nicely done good sir :toast:

Hotrodtractor · Oct 21, 2011

Scarlet_Nape said:
Derail On:

Curtis, I just got caught up on this thread (great info, BTW), and noticed that Tom quit posting at the mention of driving his truck. LOL

Derail Off

LMAO!