61 mm vs. 64 mm billet

[Stangr8cr]

I'm running a No Limit 5" intake and SPE Hot X tuning but I'm sure it's not optimized tuning for this turbo. I don't really track mileage but the lie o meter doesn't move off of 15.4 with mixed driving. I only really hand calculate on road trips so I'm not much help in that department but the truck just flat runs so much better.


Keith

 

[maxxedout]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but here's what I understand based on everyone's feedback:

61 mm billet (Tow Max)-Good "bolt on" modification that will require minimal, if any, tuning changes to perform properly. Good for towing and daily driving with a noticeable power gain over the 11-14 charger. Should run alright with added fuel from 2015 HPFP.

64 mm billet (Street Max)-Slightly slower spool up than the 61 mm billet, but still okay for daily driving and towing. Drivable as-is, but will require custom tuning to have ideal street and towing manners. More power on the top end and will be able to take full advantage of the added fuel from a 2015 HPFP. The street max should have lower EGT's than the tow max, right?

I guess both turbos have their strong points, but it's still a tough call for me. Has anyone gone from a tow max to a street max or visa-versa?

The "painless" nature of the tow max sure is tempting, but for only a couple hundred more, I'm wondering if the street max would be more worth it in the long run. The last thing I want to do is buy a turbo, and kick myself in the a** for not making the right decision.

 

[redwhitenblue]

Are there dyno sheets with these overlayed? It would make this much easier.

Does the streetmax come up slow enough to smoke before it lights? I wouldn't want any more smoke than I get when I step on it with my stock '11 turbo

 

[Cheap6.7]

Who has the cleaner tunes for this set up?
KEM?
Pip?
?

 

[Breaking Habits]

Who has the cleaner tunes for this set up?
KEM?
Pip?
?

Not exactly sure how much time MikeS has with these trucks with big chargers, but KEM has dozens of hours with my 11 w/ a 61mm & Morgan's 15 w/ a 64 live tuning and dialing in for driveability

I will say any 11-14 truck with even a stock turbo 15 retrofit can benefit greatly from custom tuning. Mine has a powerband like a race tuned LML, only cleaner, and stronger

 

[CATDiezel]

Here's the problem. Your getting input from guys that flat foot ALOT and are big HP boys in general. Alittle lag doesn't mean much to them.

If your looking for an easy smooth transition the 61 will be your best option. Whether you go billet or not.

 

[maxxedout]

Here's the problem. Your getting input from guys that flat foot ALOT and are big HP boys in general. Alittle lag doesn't mean much to them.

If your looking for an easy smooth transition the 61 will be your best option. Whether you go billet or not.

That's what I was wondering... Believe me, I have nothing against a lot of power, but that's not my goal here. If I could be around 525-550 between the 2015 HPFP and whatever turbo I go with, I would be very happy. I'm after a fun daily driver with a little more power than just a tune by itself.

 

[Morgan@Midwest Diesel & Auto]

Ok, let me make this very clear. Any time you go from a stock 11-14 charger to any 2015 charger there is a big dead spot down low. That is not the turbo. That is the tuning. The 11-14 vane control is way off with a 2015. Can you drive it, yes. Will it be anything like your stock turbo, no.

With tuning we change the tables to mimic a 2015. When that is done they spool as good as a new 2015. Which if anyone has any real seat time will tell you does not spool quite as fast as the tiny baby 11-14 turbo. But it's way better than even a 6.4 with stock chargers.

The 61mm TowMax spools better than a stock 2015 charger. The StreetMax is a tadd lazier. Even with a 1410 pw race tune it was nearly impossible to make the StreetMax smoke. It is still a small turbo. On a 6.7 you are talking a 100 rpm difference at best over stock. So stock starts making boost at 1200 this makes at 1300. I could make 15 psi at less than 1500 rpm with the 64mm. I don't think spool is an issue. I'm picky, very picky about what I drive. You talking about slighty modified stock turbos. Not s400's... Spool is very very minimally affected. But to get best results vgt tuning to mimic a 2015 is a must for any. Has nothing to do with the compressor size of the turbo.

I would make all my turbos StreetMax but I have the TowMax as a cheaper lower hp turbo just to give guys a nice alternative to the stock cast turbo. It's not really a driveability difference. It's a power and cost ratio more than anything.

So please, understand I am not a "big power" guy. Don't ever say a non vgt is so great to drive. I would take a 64mm over an s300 any day of the week. I've done a lot of this testing to try to help you guys with real world scenarios. I have no issue sending my 80 year old grandfather out in my 2015 or my wife who knows nothing about trucks or how modified ones drive. I never turned it down. Never changed the tune. They drive so close to stock that it's not an issue.

Just letting you know the real facts from someone who's not guessing. I know them both because I built them. I've drove them extensively. They are both good turbos. If you don't really care about max power but would be satisfied with a nice hp bump and the added reliability then go TowMax. But for the person that wants to run with hot tuned 6.4's I would say 100% you need a StreetMax and a bigger pump than a 2011-14 has. That's gonna get you 600hp 6.4 type power with a big tune.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jcain]

not sure how you'll ever know if you like a set-up without driving or riding in a truck with it, but maybe these videos I just shot can give you an idea of daily driveability?

Truck is ccsb, 4x4. 3.31 gears, 35.1" tall tires, 2015 turbo, stock 2012 HPFP, stock exhaust with delete pipe only, no limit cai, egr deleted, GearHead tuning

Minimaxx parameters shown are: boost - egt - pulse width - throttle position


Locked in 6th at ~70mph just to show responsiveness. While I'd love to go 100% throttle for you, I like my rods

http://youtu.be/EVDYVx8ZMmQ

normal stop light start with traffic flow 25-35% throttle max

http://youtu.be/YDBZoRpYT8M

rolling stop light with traffic flow 25-35% throttle max

http://youtu.be/MzwSTH89idc

simulated kick-down pass at 60mph 42% throttle max to get it to drop a gear

http://youtu.be/TNDsfzN5GH4

 

[Powerstroked162]

Here's the problem. Your getting input from guys that flat foot ALOT and are big HP boys in general. Alittle lag doesn't mean much to them.

If your looking for an easy smooth transition the 61 will be your best option. Whether you go billet or not.

I disagree and honestly if you haven't driven a truck with one of these chargers then you wouldn't have the experience to make that type of claim. 64 is a very well rounded turbocharger that has proven to be extremely versatile and flat out fun on the street. I see no reason why not to get straight into a 64 if you're buyinb a modded turbocharger other then if it is out of the builds budget. That's it. Both are great turbos don't get me wrong, but one will do everything the other can, and more.

 

[maxxedout]

This is pretty much the issue I've had all along... There doesn't seem to be any consistent opinion on what the right turbo would be. I haven't driven a truck with either turbo, so I really have no idea which way to go. The cost difference from the 61 to the 64 isn't much, but making the wrong choice, and having to buy the other after a while would suck.....

 

[CATDiezel]

I disagree and honestly if you haven't driven a truck with one of these chargers then you wouldn't have the experience to make that type of claim. 64 is a very well rounded turbocharger that has proven to be extremely versatile and flat out fun on the street. I see no reason why not to get straight into a 64 if you're buyinb a modded turbocharger other then if it is out of the builds budget. That's it. Both are great turbos don't get me wrong, but one will do everything the other can, and more.

Point taken.

The problem is alot of points are always geared around WOT experiences. Not the average guy that's riding down. I-40 with a load of luggage and just wants to ease around a big rig without floor boarding it.

I'll take what Morgan says and bank it.

His comment on vgt over s300 is what I've seen many guys claim spools better than stock. So many opinions. But only very little truth usually. And it's not guys wanting to lie about what they have. There opinions are generally heavy foot opinions. Remember the big gt4094 best thing since sliced cheese saga. Big fuel. Big baggy turbo. Big flop. Haven't seen the poor truck even break into the 13's.

I pointed out the 61 for two simple reasons. Reliability as far as mimicking stock is best to stay close to stock sizes. And 3. The 61 will be easier to tune over the phone. It's been said griped about and proven that the tunes seem to react different from truck to truck with guys having a different aray of complaints concerning drive ability. Staying closer to stock size regarding the 15 turbo will help that for the guy that doesn't have as much patience to get it "dialed"

Me personally I would use a 64 mm.

But when you have a guy that's asking 40 questions regarding drive ability and reliability. He needs what's easiest and closest to stock size.

 

[CATDiezel]

I should also add that if I were spending your money it would go towards Midwest Diesel. He actually has a toolbox and a shop to work in with his own tools! Lol.

 

[jcain]

My wife can't tell a thing different between the 2015 turbo vs the 11-14. she would have gladly made fun of me wasting my money had the truck been a turd via DD. she still enjoys taking it to the grocery story and jumping speed bumps...

 

[CATDiezel]

Most women cannot tell. Nor do they care. Lol.

There baby makers!

 

[maxxedout]

Point taken... I know I have a lot of questions. It's just a tough call for me to make.

Truthfully, I'd rather go with the 64, BUT only if it'll run right when it's all said and done.

If there are any doubts about how the truck will run, I'm better off playing it safe with the 61.

 

[jcain]

my wife made fun of the truck when i put the lift, 20s and 35s on about how big of a turd the truck turned into. then i had gearhead redo my trans tune

 

[Powerstroked162]

Point taken... I know I have a lot of questions. It's just a tough call for me to make.

Truthfully, I'd rather go with the 64, BUT only if it'll run right when it's all said and done.

If there are any doubts about how the truck will run, I'm better off playing it safe with the 61.

64 and be done. I've tested it, and have real time experience with it. Promise you won't be disappointed

 

[gfulton]

Alot of good info. in this thread........

 

[HPGod]

The billet 61 sounds like a great upgrade, but is there really much to gain when running a mild tow tune? I'm tuned and deleted and pull 15-18,000 with my dually on 35's (3.73's). I can see the obvious gains when you're maxing the turbo out on a hot tune, but is there much benefit for my application? Will it move enough air to let me run more power and keep EGT's in check or am I simply upgrading from a reliability stand point of not having a failure prone turbo?

I'm still on the fence whether I should do gears (4.30's) or the turbos.