A couple of Electric Fuel System questions

PsRumors · Jun 23, 2011

superduty4x4 said:
I need to pick up a bender and a flare tool for this job, give me your thoughts on this kit:
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00947752000P?prdNo=4

It depends on what you are going to do.

JIC & AN fittings require 37 degree flare
Vibra-lok requires a 45 degree flare

The specs for the kit you are looking at doesn't really say much so I am going to assume it is a 45 degree only kit.

superduty4x4 · Jun 23, 2011

Tom S said:
I think what you have there is a regular plumbing flare tool. Hydraulic/JIC/AN fittings you a different type of tool with a different deg angle. I think one is 45 and the other 37deg. I bought a Rigid flare to do to mine at the suggestion of Dennis at ITP/Sinister Diesel. He was working on a OBS fuel system I think FYI.

Yes he is, but I don't think it will be available for a while yet.
I'm guessing I'll need to stick to an auto parts store for the JIC/AN flare tool? I haven't been able to find anything yet that specifies what angle the flare is on most of the tools available at Sears, Home Depot, etc.

PsRumors · Jun 23, 2011

superduty4x4 said:
Yes he is, but I don't think it will be available for a while yet.
I'm guessing I'll need to stick to an auto parts store for the JIC/AN flare tool? I haven't been able to find anything yet that specifies what angle the flare is on most of the tools available at Sears, Home Depot, etc.

Summit's 37 degree tool. Works great for the occassional use.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-900311/

Tom S · Jun 23, 2011

Tom S said:
I bought a couple of tools for making those AN flares for the stainless tube and also for bending the lines. The tube bender is an Imperial 464-FH-04 and the flare tool is a Ridgid 377 37 degree AN JIC flare tool. These are both awesome tools. Thanks for the suggestions Dennis@ITP

Here is what bought. The bender is just for 1/4 tube but the flare tool does several sizes. It works good when you are working with stainless.

superduty4x4 · Jun 23, 2011

PsRumors said:
Summit's 37 degree tool. Works great for the occassional use.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-900311/

Works OK with stainless too?
Summit also has a great price on a tubing bender and Y-blocks so I'll probably just order everything from them, thanks for the tip!

Mr. Neutron · Jun 23, 2011

Ask around (like you just did

) about the flaring tools for stainless. The one that you posted above (KD brand, I think?) will not work for flaring stainless, and like has been said, is the wrong angle anyway. Reading reviews & such is one way of finding out about a tool's usefulness for flaring stainless....

Stainless is nice to use, but not totally necessary. NAPA has some of their "universal, bendable, & flareable" (is "flareable" even a word???

) brake/fuel line that has a polymer coating of some sort on the outside to resist rust, corrosion & etc.. It's a little bit softer than stainless, and WAAAYY easier to bend, flare, and work with than stainless. It's what I used in my engine's valley, after being frustrated trying to work with the stainless I bought from Summit Racing. Don't misunderstand me; the stuff from Summit was good stuff. It was just too hard to work with for my limited bending & plumbing skills & tools. I wound up borrowing a 37 degree flaring tool from work that worked extremely well. Sorry I don't know what brand it is..... :shrug: I just used my hands/fingers & other "improvised items" for my little bit of bending I did. (which may explain how I snapped off my positive terminal's posive stud on my fuel pump..... :doh: :drool: )

CSIPSD, I envy you more than you know. My wife & I love the Bend area. Hell, right now, we'd love most anywhere it wasn't raining more than it is dry.....

Jimmie

superduty4x4 · Jun 23, 2011

Mr. Neutron said:
Ask around (like you just did ) about the flaring tools for stainless. The one that you posted above (KD brand, I think?) will not work for flaring stainless, and like has been said, is the wrong angle anyway. Reading reviews & such is one way of finding out about a tool's usefulness for flaring stainless....

Stainless is nice to use, but not totally necessary. NAPA has some of their "universal, bendable, & flareable" (is "flareable" even a word??? ) brake/fuel line that has a polymer coating of some sort on the outside to resist rust, corrosion & etc.. It's a little bit softer than stainless, and WAAAYY easier to bend, flare, and work with than stainless. It's what I used in my engine's valley, after being frustrated trying to work with the stainless I bought from Summit Racing. Don't misunderstand me; the stuff from Summit was good stuff. It was just too hard to work with for my limited bending & plumbing skills & tools. I wound up borrowing a 37 degree flaring tool from work that worked extremely well. Sorry I don't know what brand it is..... :shrug: I just used my hands/fingers & other "improvised items" for my little bit of bending I did. (which may explain how I snapped off my positive terminal's posive stud on my fuel pump..... :doh: :drool: )

CSIPSD, I envy you more than you know. My wife & I love the Bend area. Hell, right now, we'd love most anywhere it wasn't raining more than it is dry.....

Jimmie

If you envy Joe (CSIPSD) you obviously don't know him very well

I realize SS isn't necessary but it would be nice. I'll have to ask at Napa about the "flareable" stuff you mentioned. And yeah, I think flareable is a word

PsRumors · Jun 23, 2011

superduty4x4 said:
Works OK with stainless too?
Summit also has a great price on a tubing bender and Y-blocks so I'll probably just order everything from them, thanks for the tip!

Yep. I placed a Y in the valley and ran lines to the back of the head using the factory vibra-lock fittings at the back. I bet I built 100 lines before I had it just right.

You need to make sure to de-burr the ends prior to flaring them or they will crack.

Tom S · Jun 23, 2011

I cleaned up the ends of the cut tube with the belt sander prior to flaring
I also agree stainless is not necessary

superduty4x4 · Jun 27, 2011

PsRumors said:
Yep. I placed a Y in the valley and ran lines to the back of the head using the factory vibra-lock fittings at the back. I bet I built 100 lines before I had it just right.

You need to make sure to de-burr the ends prior to flaring them or they will crack.

Well send me some of the junk ones and I'll see if I can make them work LOL
Many thanks to you and Tom for your help thus far in this thread.

superduty4x4 · Jun 30, 2011

Does anyone have a photo showing how to cut the fitting on the rear of the head in a 97 so it can be removed without pulling the up pipes?

Tom S · Jun 30, 2011

Here you go. I woudpack that fitting with something maybe cotten to keep crap out of the galley.

superduty4x4 · Jun 30, 2011

Excellent... thanks Tom!

old man dave · Jun 30, 2011

Supply lines are 3/8", return lines are 5/16". Beans kit supplies a coupler to fit the 5/16" line to the replacement 3/8" on the tank side of the valve.

PsRumors · Jul 1, 2011

old man dave said:
Supply lines are 3/8", return lines are 5/16".....

That is in the valley. At the valve both lines are 3/8".

superduty4x4 · Aug 8, 2011

Still need to get some fittings and fuel line ordered, this project has taken a back burner.
Can folks post pictures of how you ran the lines to the rear of the heads? I was looking over my spare motor in the garage and man space is tight... I was going to run 3/8" SS braided hose to the rear of the heads but there isn't much room. It looks like hard lines are the way to go because of space, but I don't really want to use the vibra-lock fittings if I can help it.

old man dave · Aug 8, 2011

PsRumors said:
That is in the valley. At the valve both lines are 3/8".

Thats where the stepdown 3/8"to 5/16" fitting in Bean's kit was installed at the rear of the truck......

bean's kit uses 3/8" supply/return back then is reduced to the 5/16" sized return hose just in front of the axle. Not the steel line but the 5/16"hose there. Put it this way, that's the way Bean's kit is setup and my 97 California truck was piped up the same way. I have both a federal and California engine and there are minor differences in the way the fuel systems are set up. This may be one of them.

old man dave · Aug 9, 2011

superduty4x4 said:
Still need to get some fittings and fuel line ordered, this project has taken a back burner.
Can folks post pictures of how you ran the lines to the rear of the heads? I was looking over my spare motor in the garage and man space is tight... I was going to run 3/8" SS braided hose to the rear of the heads but there isn't much room. It looks like hard lines are the way to go because of space, but I don't really want to use the vibra-lock fittings if I can help it.

You can use a hard cast AN-6 90* into the fuel rail plug. Assemble the 90* fitting and index fit it to the fuel rail plug then braze it together. Plenty of room this was

Aeroquip makes a close bend AN-6 hose to male fitting that will fit into a drilled out fuel rail plug/AN-6-straight 1/4"NPT fitting into the back of the head . Diesel Innovations sells this fitting ready made or you can make it yourself by cutting off the threaded section, drilling out the plug and brazing it together. I used the close bend AN-6 fitting with the homemade modified fuel rail fitting.