Are pushrods and springs really needed?

[Smokin_Joe]

I'm still all stock @ 100,000 miles. I always planned to buy the rods and springs from Elite but never got around to it. No issues yet.

 

[Dieselcraft]

bone stock trucks bend push rods. i think its even scarier to do springs w/o push rods.

I SEE IT EVERY DAY

 

[CAT35niner]

I think pushrods and springs are just safe. Not saying they will bend, just knowing that they won't and knowing my piston isn't gonna kiss the valve. Anybody breaks a shaft at wot runs the risk of damage.

Safe is the thing, thats why i will be doing stage 1 valvesprings and stage 2 7/16 pushrods to go with it. I dont want or need any problems. A little overkill but it will work

 

[madman1234509]

It probably won't hurt.... Id just like to see more factual data. More 650+ HP trucks with mileage and stock rods. Why are there stage 2 rods? Were people having problems with the regular chromoly ones?

 

[extreme3807]

I am still running stock rods, probably over 40 WOT runs with no issues.

 

[Jeff@Spartan]

I think the stage 2's are just bigger.

 

[Jeff@Spartan]

I am still running stock rods, probably over 40 WOT runs with no issues.

Pushrods?

 

[extreme3807]

Correct

 

[Jeff@Spartan]

Correct

So Craig's at 900, your at 900, Mike C is at 700, and Joe is at 700. All have stock pushrods with lots of abuse and no issues.

 

[extreme3807]

:whs: that's a good point. Other than doing more 4wd launches daily, I couldn't abuse mine anymore than I already do

 

[Jeff@Spartan]

I'll be doing pushrods and valve springs next time my cab comes up for the security, but there are a lot of high horsepower trucks that see a lot of abuse with a lot of stock parts and no failures so far. I think it says a lot about the strength of the 6.4L as a power making platform.

:ford:

 

[Dustball8504]

I'll be doing pushrods and valve springs next time my cab comes up for the security, but there are a lot of high horsepower trucks that see a lot of abuse with a lot of stock parts and no failures so far. I think it says a lot about the strength of the 6.4L as a power making platform.

:ford:

I agree! The added security is the only benefit in these things in the event that you would bend a stocker down the road. All it would take is a busted driveshaft to over rev one and let loose...

 

[Super08Duty]

Or blow a tranny and over rev, I also will be doing springs and PRs in the next few months just for safety reasons. You guys should have bent one in a vise or something and posted pics so you can get more sales lol

 

[Dustball8504]

Or blow a tranny and over rev, I also will be doing springs and PRs in the next few months just for safety reasons. You guys should have bent one in a vise or something and posted pics so you can get more sales lol

lol I can see the ad now. "As you can see from these pictures, one over rev can turn your pushrods into pretzels. Buy our pushrods and use your old ones to stir drinks and not look like silly straws!"

 

[CAT35niner]

It probably won't hurt.... Id just like to see more factual data. More 650+ HP trucks with mileage and stock rods. Why are there stage 2 rods? Were people having problems with the regular chromoly ones?

Stage 2's are just bigger and stronger, they r 7/16" in diameter. I dont need any problems so im going the best with them. Especially with mine being a stick i can over rev very easy and dont need any movement.

 

[Fast-6.0]

When we first released our kit for the 6.0 (same as 6.4) it was that we were seeing high backpressure and boost with compounds and traditional train of thought pushed me toward a valvespring with more seat pressure and open pressure. It just felt unwise to not do springs and with my luck if I feel I should and I don't, well then usually it bites me.

Also I come from a drag racing world and 9000 rpm engines. I have been to the extreme edge of valvespring capability and the damage that can occur when not using a proper pressure spring, I don't feel like going there again.

The springs don't just give safety, they also can give power due to the correct valve opening and closing by keeping the valvetrain stable.

As far as pushrods go, I didnt spec pushrods due to a safety issue, I did it for performance. Pushrod flex is a huge issue, when the pushrod flexs it shortens, so then the valves open less. I know that in our world its very hard to think about engine internals and power gains when large power gains are had from turbos and injectors but on an engine dyno just changing pushrods can result in measured power gains do to no loss in valve lift. The stronger/stiffer pushrods don't flex/bend and you get the valve lift you were expecting, followed up with horsepower.

To clarify our different stages of pushrods. Our stage 1 pushrods are 5/16" in diameter (slightly smaller than oem but greatly thicker in wall thickness) and they fit into the head gasket as a drop-in. Our stage 2 pushrods are 3/8", even thicker wall thickness and require clearancing the head gasket. I would only recommend Stage 2's if I had a large cam (over .400" valve lift), the new Elite S2 valvetrain, or 100+ psi boost.

Also, most everything that we offer starts out as something that I would like on my own ride, then I figure if I want it then my customers probably would also. :thumbup:

 

[CAT35niner]

Now that is very true, well put. For the guys thinking about clearencing the gaskets for stage 2s and thinking its hard, its not. Its actually very easy so dont worry about it.

 

[Black_Lightning91]

Anytime a part is upgraded like this it creates a weak point somewhere else. This may or may not be as weak or weaker than the original part but it will be there. So the best you can do is build so that the weak point is the cheapest and has the least chance of causing more severe damage. This is my view on things. Nothing will ever be "bulletproof" just less likely to fail.

 

[Wayne]

Heres a picture of Mikes truck after 36,000 miles of abuse with
Factory Turbos with 150hp nozzles, modded pump and 2 stages of nitrous for 10k with backpressure almost to 90 psi
Single turbo for 9k running 55psi and spraying the hell out of it going 11.3
and now currently running our new compounds at 75psi boost for the last 7,000 miles
No marks in pistons from the valves

Glad your stuff has survived on a wing and a prayer. It's a true testament to how strong stock stuff can be. Be careful on how you advertise your engine not blowing up for what you put it through. Next thing you know, people will be lined up at your door wanting you to buy them a new engine because they floated valves, and sucked one when you said they'd be fine. You are playing the "wait 'til it breaks" game to prove a point at how long it can survive. I played the "wait 'til it breaks" game before because I didn't want to cough up the money to do it right, and keep it reliable. I was not so lucky.

This is what happened to one of my 6.0's when I cheaped out on valve springs and push rods. FWIW the parts combo was an HT3B feeding an internally gated phat shaft 62 fueled by 190 cc injectors. It ran like a scalded dog until the valve hung open long enough to actually break, but then I got the opportunity to buy a completely new engine. (notice valve marks on the other pistons) I sure wish someone was there telling me to use common sense, and upgrade the valvetrain to RELIABLY match my power and pressure output. I count on my truck to get me to work, and cannot afford a failure due to neglect so you can count on me recommending to people in my situation (based on my own past experiences, and common sense) that supporting modifications are equally important to the mods that produce the most power per dollar.

 

[madman1234509]

Are push rods and springs on a 6.4 the same as on a 6.0? That would really surprise me, coming with compounds stock you'd think they would have changed the parts because the truck was going to run higher boost and back pressure, even in stock form. Its not a good peice of factual information for the 6.4 crowd because its not on the same platform.