B code v.s. Hybrid

[Powerstroked162]

No, but our trucks actually get driven everyday:swordfight:
if you worked on your truck an hour everyday or about the same as you run your mouth everyday, it may actually run :toast:

Who said it doesn't run???

Thanks for the input. Somebody told me a long time ago to never take advice from somebody more screwed up then you.... I think I'll stick to that LOL

Still waiting for you to answer all the above questions people have directly asked you, Preacher oke:

 

[JDub]

I always liked the way the unmolested B-codes ran in my 2002

 

[TyCorr]

A Stealth stage 2 works well if you don't want dual pumps, but I agree with you B codes are over kill for a stock bottom end.

also so no more mis information gets spread around I don't think it is possible to have a 4k SD, 5500lbs is stretching it for a stripped short bed 2 wheel drive street truck. My daughters RC/SB has 238/200's with an SRP1, The truck below weighs 7600lbs and is the one I am referring too, It's my wifes daily driver /tow rig.

LOL I was just pokin a little fun at the white truck Dave!

 

[JoeDaddy]

Strangely I've never seen this pic b4, now I know what my wifes next DD will be... except 1 gen older. LOL

I know that most of this was rehash and territorial sprinkling but I've learned some things. 1 last question- are the OBS electronics able to run B codes properly with just tuning or is a 97/cali PCM and IDM needed?

 

[Derek@Vision Diesel]

We are talking B codes not AB. I dont believe anything more than a tune is needed, these are injectors out of medium duty trucks, not ever in a powerstroke

 

[Powerstroke Cowboy]

B codes are single shot injectors just like the AA codes. Just flow a lot more fuel, With better pressure then the AA Codes can..



I "Think" I know what MR.Lott (David) is trying to get at. And if i am right, I agree with him.

Bash away.......

 

[JoeDaddy]

We are talking B codes not AB. I dont believe anything more than a tune is needed, these are injectors out of medium duty trucks, not ever in a powerstroke

B codes are single shot injectors just like the AA codes. Just flow a lot more fuel, With better pressure then the AA Codes can..

Schooled once again, I thought they were big AB's. So it's just a big A code?

 

[cfdeng7]

Quote from rolling thunder explaining a codes and b codestapatalk is a pain to quote with so I copied and pasted)

Powerstroke and T444Es come with A code injectors. A code injectors have a 6.0mm plunger and a 16mm intensifier piston. What this does is multiply the ICP so that injection pressure is adiquate but not having to have huge amounts of ICP like say in the 20,000 psi range. This difference give you approximately a 7:1 difference and therefore increases your injection pressure 7 psi for every 1 psi of ICP.

All DT466s and I530E injectors are B codes. Of those some DT466s and all I530Es have a 7.1mm plunger, hense more fuel per mm of stroke, with a 17.5mm intensifier piston. This gives you approximately a 6:1 ratio. So no it will not have quite as high of ICP as as the A codes but it's not as bad as it could be. However due to the larger intensifier piston they reqire much more high pressure oil to make the piston stroke the same distance. This is why you need a high pressure oil system with a higher capacity.

 

[Derek@Vision Diesel]

Schooled once again, I thought they were big AB's. So it's just a big A code?

AB is a stock split shot injector out of a SD powerstroke.

AA would be out of an OBS powerstroke

a "B code" injector is 100% different than both of those, a "B" code comes out of a heavier duty version of this motor. Fueling in the lower RPM's is virtually the difference, heavy load applications. They are also half of the hybrid building process.

I know its confusing but AB and A "B" code, are totally different haha

 

[Chvyrkr]

B codes are single shot injectors just like the AA codes. Just flow a lot more fuel, With better pressure then the AA Codes can..



I "Think" I know what MR.Lott (David) is trying to get at. And if i am right, I agree with him.

Bash away.......

How do B codes with their 6:1 ratio outflow A codes and their 7:1 ratio, with better pressure?

You lost me on that...

P.S. Hybrids aren't A codes. They're hybrids.

 

[Powerstroke Cowboy]

Schooled once again, I thought they were big AB's. So it's just a big A code?

here is some reading for you. not all "B" Codes are single shots.

AA injectors came in the '94-'97 non-california trucks. They are all 90cc injectors and are single shots.

AB injectors came in the '97 cali, and all early '99 trucks. They are split shot injectors meaning they fire a small pilot shot before the main shot. These injectors flow 130-135cc of fuel.

AC injectors are found in the high torque version of the T444E and do not come in any Powerstrokes. They have the same internals as the AB injectors with the exception of the single shot plunger and barrel. However due to them being single shot injectors they flow 160cc. This is due to the way the split shots work. They have a small passage that opens, much like a port in a two stroke engine, that are uncovered that bypass the injection pressure out the side of the barrel instead of out the end through the nozzle. Because of this pause a portion of the travel of the plunger does nothing for injecting fuel so a split shot injects less fuel for the same amount of travel as a single shot.

AD injectors are also split shot but flow 135-140cc of fuel due to a slightly longer plunger stroke. These are found in all late '99-'03 Powerstrokes and T444Es.

AE and AF injectors are essentially the same as AD injectors but were called a long lead injector that was used as an attempt to cure a "cackle" issue many people complained about.

BA, BB, and BC injectors are essentially all the same and are the same as AC injectors but are found in some DT466s.

BD injectors are the only B codes with the larger 7.1mm plunger and barrel that are single shot injectors. These are the injectors people are usually talking about when they are talking about putting I530E injectors in their Powerstrokes.
BE injectors are essentially the same as the AD injectors but found in some '97-'99 DT466s.

EF, BG, BI, BJ, BN and BP injectors all have basically the same capacity and are split shots. However the nozzles vary on them depending on application. They can be found in many DT466s and I530Es

The ones in RED are the only single shot injectors that you can use in place of the AA codes.

How do B codes with their 6:1 ratio outflow A codes and their 7:1 ratio, with better pressure?

You lost me on that...

I will try to put in words what is in my head. So please bare with me.

AA code have a 6.0mm plunger and barrel, And have a 7:1 ratio

The BD Injectors ( i530 "B" codes) have a 7.1mm plunger and barrel, And have a 6:1 ratio

Now since you brought hybrids up we will talk about them to.

Hybrids typically use a AA code intensifier piston and a "B" code 7.1mm Plunger and barrel, and have a 5:1 ratio.

Now a 175cc AA code will take the same amount of oil to run as a 250cc hybrid. NOW on the other hand a 248cc "B" code will take about 20% more oil to run then the AA or the hybrid. hence the reason behind the "B" codes taking more oil to work right.

AA have a higher ratio 7:1 to the "B" codes 6:1 and the hybrids 5:1.

so at lower ICP pressers and lower rpms the AA will have a better injection presser then the "B" codes and hybrids. BUT the AA cant match the "B" codes or hybrids for flow.

NOW at lower RPMs and ICP the "B" codes will have a higher injection presser then the hybrids. AND I feel like the "B" code will still have a higher injection presser at higher ICP and higher RPMS. IF you have the proper oil to run them. And make them inject the fuel quick.

The only advantage the hybrid has is the fact it can inject the fuel quicker at higher RPMs, hence the argument thet that is the reason it has better injection pressers then the "B" codes. ONLY at Higher RPMs...

BUT I feel that is not quit true. My reason..... The "B" codes and hybrids share the same 7.1mm P&B That is the point i think most people miss when they compare the two. The 7.1mm P&B is the reason the AA will not keep up in flow OR injection presser at higher RPMs.

The fact that hybrids have a 7.1mm P&B and the "B" codes have a 7.1mm P&B AND that the "B" code starts out with a 6:1 ratio vs the hybrids 5:1 ratio, Hence why i Believe if you have the oil to go with the "B" codes the will still have a Higher injection ratio EVERYWHERE across the RPM range. you have to remember the hybrids and "B" codes flow the same amount of fuel for the same amount of piston travel. That is were i think David Lott was coming from. So i think "B" code would be the better all around choice. IF you have the oil to go with them.

"B" be codes should make more power per CC. and have less smoke and get better Fuel MPGs then the hybrids.


BUT all this is just my opinion.........

P.S. Hybrids aren't A codes. They're hybrids.

You are right there. and I think i had that figured out already. But thanks for pointing it out. I should have mentioned that. But I was not talking about hybrids just AA codes.




David




ON EDIT: I cant seem to get the "quote" tags to work right. But i think you can find what i wrote..

 

[smorris]

Anyone know what injector blowby or smorris or co04cobra (misspelled) are running???

They were 340 cc 200% at the time of the dyno event. Found out later it had several bent pushrods at the time also.

 

[Chvyrkr]

here is some reading for you. not all "B" Codes are single shots.

AA injectors came in the '94-'97 non-california trucks. They are all 90cc injectors and are single shots.

AB injectors came in the '97 cali, and all early '99 trucks. They are split shot injectors meaning they fire a small pilot shot before the main shot. These injectors flow 130-135cc of fuel.

AC injectors are found in the high torque version of the T444E and do not come in any Powerstrokes. They have the same internals as the AB injectors with the exception of the single shot plunger and barrel. However due to them being single shot injectors they flow 160cc. This is due to the way the split shots work. They have a small passage that opens, much like a port in a two stroke engine, that are uncovered that bypass the injection pressure out the side of the barrel instead of out the end through the nozzle. Because of this pause a portion of the travel of the plunger does nothing for injecting fuel so a split shot injects less fuel for the same amount of travel as a single shot.

AD injectors are also split shot but flow 135-140cc of fuel due to a slightly longer plunger stroke. These are found in all late '99-'03 Powerstrokes and T444Es.

AE and AF injectors are essentially the same as AD injectors but were called a long lead injector that was used as an attempt to cure a "cackle" issue many people complained about.

BA, BB, and BC injectors are essentially all the same and are the same as AC injectors but are found in some DT466s.

BD injectors are the only B codes with the larger 7.1mm plunger and barrel that are single shot injectors. These are the injectors people are usually talking about when they are talking about putting I530E injectors in their Powerstrokes.
BE injectors are essentially the same as the AD injectors but found in some '97-'99 DT466s.

EF, BG, BI, BJ, BN and BP injectors all have basically the same capacity and are split shots. However the nozzles vary on them depending on application. They can be found in many DT466s and I530Es

The ones in RED are the only single shot injectors that you can use in place of the AA codes.




You are right there. and I think i had that figured out already. But thanks for pointing it out. I should have mentioned that. But I was not talking about hybrids just AA codes.




David




ON EDIT: I cant seem to get the "quote" tags to work right. But i think you can find what i wrote..

Never mind.

 

[JAP]

Nevermind.

 

[smorris]

Well, I am not getting too far in the middle of this one. Its all been done over and over already. All I can say is go back and re-read what Charles and Jason posted earlier. IF the oil could flow into and out of the injector fast enough without having a pressure drop, then the B codes would be better than hybrids all around all the time. Hmmmm, but then the A codes would look even better, or those reverse hybrids. But, since its all been proven over and over on the flow bench.........More cc per time through the same size hole ALWAYS = higher pressure. Or in plain english, a hybrid any size injector through a 200% nozzle that flows more cc's than a B code or A code or whatever code through that same 200% nozzle in the same amount of time , HAS TO HAVE HIGHER INJECTION PRESSURE. And in my feeble mind, theres no way that higher pressure = lower quality through the same orifice.
More fuel per time through the same size hole = higher pressure= better quality
If that didnt make sense then theres just no use even trying to explain it.
And for that earlier statement about cc per hp, umm, yeah, 400 cc would probably make close to that 1500 hp in a perfect world. Brians already done just shy of 1100. But when ya get up there, theres more to it than just throw in more fuel and spray. At least if you wanna keep it in one piece.

 

[Charles]

How do B codes with their 6:1 ratio outflow A codes and their 7:1 ratio, with better pressure?

You lost me on that...

Goooooooooood question.....

And with small enough nozzles, they don't. But tiny nozzles don't make power, so we don't run A's. There's a point where the B suffers the same fate compared to the hybrid. And since some people don't like making peak power at 2700rpm with a buttload of spray.... we run hybrids.

 

[Charles]

You are very correct, which is why hybrids were invented, I didn't have big oil back in the day. But now that we do, I like a power band that comes on low and pulls up high. Even Matt agrees that a B code will stress the bottom end and for good reason they make big gobs of the T word that Chuckles hates so much but make for tons of fun on the street.

and just to clarify, I am not anti hybrid in the least bit, I have them in 3 other trucks that I own. I just hate to see mis information being spread as is very apparent in this thread, simply read back a couple of post:doh:
Buy what you can afford, buy the best tuning you can afford and be happy, just don't come to Houston and get butt hurt when a girl with B codes hands you your tail:toast:

Instead of rhetorical statement after rhetorical statement, how about you just sit right on down and take anything you feel to be misinformation and correct it line by line... using facts and valid conceptions.

Because I have seen a lot of feel-good type responses based on SOTP feelings, but all of that has been stemming from you, not those providing objective data in opposition of B-codes.

Seriously.

 

[Chvyrkr]

Goooooooooood question.....

And with small enough nozzles, they don't. But tiny nozzles don't make power, so we don't run A's. There's a point where the B suffers the same fate compared to the hybrid. And since some people don't like making peak power at 2700rpm with a buttload of spray.... we run hybrids.

Yup, got that.

I don't remember what my point was though, and don't care enough to figure it out. Boy wonder can do as he likes.

 

[Hotrodtractor]

Just to toss some fuel on the fire.

In terms of performance - the A-code would be the lowest, the B-code middle of the road, and the Hybrid is at the top. Now that is coming from someone that thinks a stock tip is useless, a 100% tip is OK for a working man's truck, and a 200% tip should be the staple of anyone thinking about doing anything with their truck competition wise and still be able to daily drive and tow.

That whole previous statement kind of flys in the face of traditional PSD performance - but traditional PSD performance is where bottom ends wouldn't hold together in the 500HP range at all. Look at the reasons behind the failures and correct the issues directly - you might take a different look at what you have and the direction you go.

 

[Powerstroke Racer]

Instead of rhetorical statement after rhetorical statement, how about you just sit right on down and take anything you feel to be misinformation and correct it line by line... using facts and valid conceptions.

Because I have seen a lot of feel-good type responses based on SOTP feelings, but all of that has been stemming from you, not those providing objective data in opposition of B-codes.

Seriously.

Charles

It really doesn't matter, B codes are worthless paper weights