B code v.s. Hybrid

[Vader's Fury]

I think the Nitrous is the kicker, we arent talking fuel only numbers here. His fuel only numbers were very similar due to lack of turbo. On the bottle the hp/cc should jump slightly id think, as he has proven.

That is alot more than slightly


I am not talking fuel numbers either. Just comparing approx 1k hp trucks.

Jacob make 936 hp on 248cc b-codes. Equals 3.77419 hp/cc

Brian make 1069 hp on 400cc hybrids. Equals 2.6725 hp/cc

Both were on spray. Now I know that they are 2 totally different set-ups but I see it as either the b-code is WAY better at making power than the hybrid, Or Wop nitrous setup is WAY better than what brian was running.

That is what I was getting at. Although Charles has stated that one of the misunderstandings is that we are actually injecting 400cc of fuel in a 2ms window. And that corrected me.

Now my question is what is the point of having a 400cc injector if you are only using 250 or so cc's? I know that the extra is a good "cushion" but do we really need 150cc's of cushion?

By that thought process then since I have 250cc hybrids in my truck I should be able to get at least 700+ out of her with everything else set-up right. Or I should switch to b-codes and be able to do it. That is the part that I am confused on.

 

[Gearhead]

what does the cushion hurt? are you thinking it makes them dump more fuel just driving normally?

 

[Vader's Fury]

I dont think the cushion hurts anything. I actually understand where you are coming from with it helping out and agree with you. I am just curious if we need that much.

And if we are not in need of all that cushion then what is the point of running anything over a 250 plus the XXcc's of cushion?

 

[jngreen]

I like hybrids just for the simple fact that its fairly proven to be easy to make 600 hp, or more, on a stock bottom end.

I'm not sure about now, but B codes used to require a built motor. I guess what I'm saying is it appears to me that hybrids don't make power at a rpm that blows stuff up as easy as B codes.

I know that tuning has come a long way, but I don't know many that still run B codes either.

 

[TyCorr]

That is alot more than slightly

Jacob make 936 hp on 248cc b-codes. Equals 3.77419 hp/cc

Brian make 1069 hp on 400cc hybrids. Equals 2.6725 hp/cc

Both were on spray. Now I know that they are 2 totally different set-ups but I see it as either the b-code is WAY better at making power than the hybrid, Or Wop nitrous setup is WAY better than what brian was running.

The only thing those trucks and nitrous have in common is they both use it!! You cant assume the peak hp in these scenarios has any direct correlation to the type of inj used. Tuning and obviously nitrous, in copious amounts for Jdub, are more to be looked at. Brians truck isnt a 500hp truck if you take away the nitrous either so if Brian used 500hp worth of giggle juice then the hp figures would be so different that it'd be outlandish to juxtapose them.

The b code vs hybrid debate seems a little bit outta like for comparison. Granted a 400%cc hybrid isnt going to work with a srp1 as well as say a dual pump setup, at least its been hinted at to be this way, however a smaller set of hybrids can use a stock oil system and run fine. There may be some inconsistency when running things full on with a hybrid and a stock 17*hpop. But a srp1 will support 300's just fine. Thats more than most people are going to use/install. The b codes? Forget it! Dual pumps or at least a stage II-stage III. A upgraded bottom end is recommended which to me means its hard on the rods. My question is for the 50-85% of the time you dd why have the setup that is going to be harder to keep going AND possibly making power with? Id love to build an upgraded motor but if I can put hybrids in my 260k mile motor and continue to use it like stock or even twice that capability why get inj's that require so much MORE additional bs to safely use the truck??

For that kinda money you'd be getting close to custom CR territory, imo.

Id say that the way things are changing and evolving that hybrids are INDEED the future of these 7.3's for dd'ing and competition. Sure that wop truck with the bcodes and nitrous is cool! Hell any psd is cool in my book but amongst ourselves we should be looking for what is good for multi-use as well as dedicated this or that...

Dont get me wrong either what the b codes can do is amazing but the hybrids have changed so many notions in the last YEAR that its plausible to think that in another year we'll be saying remember when everyone thought 400/400's were unstreetable. :thumbsup:

 

[powerstrokenstang]

Now my question is what is the point of having a 400cc injector if you are only using 250 or so cc's? I know that the extra is a good "cushion" but do we really need 150cc's of cushion?

who says there is that much cushion, i have 3ms commanded going down the track and a swamps idm, they said would reduce delay to about .4ms, so that should be by the math 370cc's. my injectors are 455's but if they were 400's there wouldn be much cushion at all.

 

[TyCorr]

who says there is that much cushion, i have 3ms commanded going down the track and a swamps idm, they said would reduce delay to about .4ms, so that should be by the math 370cc's. my injectors are 455's but if they were 400's there wouldn be much cushion at all.

That sounds fricken wicked I bet!! You have any vids up of your rig?

 

[jwlandry]

Ive been keeping up with this and i have a senario

Say you have 2 trucks... Identical trucks
They each have big oil and a turbo big enough to support the said injectors. Say a 42r. Just for the senario.

You give truck 1 a set of 250/200 hybrids. Get Lott or Matt to do the tuning.

You give truck 2 a set of 250/200 B codes. Get Lott or Matt to do the tuning.

NOW WITH ALL THINGS EQUAL AND IDENTICAL EXCEPT FOR INJECTORS
1. Which one will make flat out more power? Why?

2. Which one will be more competition orientated? I.E. Sled pulling/drag racing. Why?

3. Which one will be more sutied for a DD street truck thats nothing more then a 'weekend warrior'? Why?


Discuss.......

 

[Petro]

I think question 2 and 3 have basically been answered

 

[TyCorr]

I think question 2 and 3 have basically been answered

I think you could throw #1 in there as well...unless you excluded certain rpms.

 

[Petro]

I think you could throw #1 in there as well...unless you excluded certain rpms.

Id say your probably right, hybrid up high and B codes down low.

 

[Gearhead]

This debate is retarded anyway. Both injectors are tunable and like i said B codes have an advantage until you get to about 200% nozzles with injection pressure vs ICP needed to make that injection pressure. I have tuned both and for the average guy you won't notice the difference if tuned properly. Now if you want to make RPMs with a bigger nozzle than a 200%, then B codes are out IMO.

 

[TyCorr]

This debate is retarded anyway. Both injectors are tunable and like i said B codes have an advantage until you get to about 200% nozzles with injection pressure vs ICP needed to make that injection pressure. I have tuned both and for the average guy you won't notice the difference if tuned properly. Now if you want to make RPMs with a bigger nozzle than a 200%, then B codes are out IMO.

Rpms where? Above 2k? 3k?

I dont like the idea of having to buy a dual termy setup to run the b codes. Didnt your guy(meant in the nicest way possible) run 238s up over 500hp with a 38r and STOCK hpop? If so, good luck doing that with the b's.

 

[Powerstroke Racer]

This debate is retarded anyway. Both injectors are tunable and like i said B codes have an advantage until you get to about 200% nozzles with injection pressure vs ICP needed to make that injection pressure. I have tuned both and for the average guy you won't notice the difference if tuned properly. Now if you want to make RPMs with a bigger nozzle than a 200%, then B codes are out IMO.

I was done with this thread as this argument is like the special Olympics as you well agree, and I agree with everything said above except, for clarification purposes to the readers(Personally I don't care what any of you think, I know what B codes and Hybrids are capable of in a street truck)

Let's assume for a second that B codes with 200% nozzles are used, what horsepower limit and RPM do you consider B codes done?

Think about your answer as it may well warrant me actually wanting to strap Amanda's truck down to a dyno and mount the slicks on the old girl:swordfight:

 

[Powerstroke Racer]

Rpms where? Above 2k? 3k?

I dont like the idea of having to buy a dual termy setup to run the b codes. Didnt your guy(meant in the nicest way possible) run 238s up over 500hp with a 38r and STOCK hpop? If so, good luck doing that with the b's.

You are very correct, which is why hybrids were invented, I didn't have big oil back in the day. But now that we do, I like a power band that comes on low and pulls up high. Even Matt agrees that a B code will stress the bottom end and for good reason they make big gobs of the T word that Chuckles hates so much but make for tons of fun on the street.

and just to clarify, I am not anti hybrid in the least bit, I have them in 3 other trucks that I own. I just hate to see mis information being spread as is very apparent in this thread, simply read back a couple of post:doh:
Buy what you can afford, buy the best tuning you can afford and be happy, just don't come to Houston and get butt hurt when a girl with B codes hands you your tail:toast:

 

[TyCorr]

Buy what you can afford, buy the best tuning you can afford and be happy, just don't come to Houston and get butt hurt when a girl with B codes hands you your tail:toast:

In what? A cc/lb or sb 4x4? Or that 4k lb lowrider?

I agree with your advice on the tuning but for the majority of people, money aside, who wants to decide to mod then send the truck out, or at least the motor, for a month or even more to get the motor rebuilt just so they can run the b codes? Same with oil systems. I dont see the future of the oil system being such that its going to be considered desirable to come out with a triple pump setup. The srp1 is evidence that its going the total opposite direction.

Who wants all that crap under there if you dont have to? Now granted when someone is doing a full motor rebuild it seems more practical to go with an inj that requires a motor built with allowance for its strengths. Im not pulling the motor to rebuild it JUST so I can change inj's.

Maybe Im missing something? Im all ears. I guess I just cant get past the issue of not wanting to have a dual pump setup.

:toast:

 

[Derek@Vision Diesel]

The RPM potential has mostly to do with injection rate not RPM itself. And as charles states, a b code and a hybrid doesn't exhibit much difference when they have 200 percent nozzles, but this thread was started by someone who was thinking of swapping hybrids for b codes and expecting to pick up power.

I was not looking to gain power, mostly just want experience with both. If i could gain power, awesome!

 

[Powerstroked162]

Think about your answer as it may well warrant me actually wanting to strap Amanda's truck down to a dyno and mount the slicks on the old girl:swordfight:

Saweet!! You'll finally have some 550hp dyno sheets to back those 13 second trucks up LOL

 

[Powerstroke Racer]

In what? A cc/lb or sb 4x4? Or that 4k lb lowrider?

I agree with your advice on the tuning but for the majority of people, money aside, who wants to decide to mod then send the truck out, or at least the motor, for a month or even more to get the motor rebuilt just so they can run the b codes? Same with oil systems. I dont see the future of the oil system being such that its going to be considered desirable to come out with a triple pump setup. The srp1 is evidence that its going the total opposite direction.

Who wants all that crap under there if you dont have to? Now granted when someone is doing a full motor rebuild it seems more practical to go with an inj that requires a motor built with allowance for its strengths. Im not pulling the motor to rebuild it JUST so I can change inj's.

Maybe Im missing something? Im all ears. I guess I just cant get past the issue of not wanting to have a dual pump setup.

:toast:

A Stealth stage 2 works well if you don't want dual pumps, but I agree with you B codes are over kill for a stock bottom end.

also so no more mis information gets spread around I don't think it is possible to have a 4k SD, 5500lbs is stretching it for a stripped short bed 2 wheel drive street truck. My daughters RC/SB has 238/200's with an SRP1, The truck below weighs 7600lbs and is the one I am referring too, It's my wifes daily driver /tow rig.

 

[Powerstroke Racer]

Saweet!! You'll finally have some 550hp dyno sheets to back those 13 second trucks up LOL

No, but our trucks actually get driven everyday:swordfight:
if you worked on your truck an hour everyday or about the same as you run your mouth everyday, it may actually run :toast: