Billet vs. Batmo

[Ipkyss]

I think this thread was honestly designed to compare billet vs batmowheel. I'm really excited to see some good results posted as comparison. I have not seen any solid results brought to light on either wheel. Elite did one test, but I don't have the graphs to show, so I'll let the person who does bring them out. I have only ever heard speculation one way or another, as I believe that's all the info most have.

I didn't mean this post specifically. Just the topic in general. I am very curious to see some real info.

 

[Jeff@Spartan]

I have a buddy that has a pretty reputable Duramax shop and he also has a pretty good knowledge of turbo's, flow, etc. He has never understood the Batmowheel hype like a lot of people here haven't. I think he has even done testing that proved that Batmowheels don't outflow billet wheels in Garrett chargers.

I would love to see a 71mm atmosphere Precision wheel vs. Batmowheel comparison. I've discussed this with another member on here and neither of us think there would be any difference at all.

Batmowheel = HYPE

Just my opinion though...

 

[Tree Trimmer]

i think the batmo's design, following the GE jet engine, while good in theory, doesnt apply to this application, in the way they think it does.

what i mean, is in that jet engine, the fins are like 6-8ft long. so that little kick out that they have, it friggin huge. compared to a fin that 2 inches(ish) long. that little kick out, is just that. simply a little kick out.

while functional compared to a cast wheel, you cannot make a cast wheel, in any kind of agressive shape, as the mold needs to be able to let go it.

my opinion, also, is that the GE design works so well, in the jet, because the air flows straight through the engine. where as in a turbo, it has to turn 90* to exit the compressor. i think the turn, is what defeats the batmo.

but im a tree trimmer, after all. how wrong am i?

 

[91turbogsx]

^^Was typing as Tree Trimmer posted...beat me to it.

It was a damn good marketing gimmick in my opinion. The design works for GE in their jet engines that have a 10' wheel. When you bring the size down to common turbo sizes the gains are infinitesimal.

I agree with most in this thread that what most people are feeling for improvement is the switch to a billet wheel in general regardless if it's a batmo.

 

[bigrpowr]

elite tested almost identicle sized turbos, both 75mm with the same ex wheels and almost idetincle A/R. one being a precision billet and one being my batmo race covered 75 ... the precision made about 15hp more at peak, and made 100hp more at 4000 rpms. haller has the graphs iirc.

 

[Jeff@Spartan]

elite tested almost identicle sized turbos, both 75mm with the same ex wheels and almost idetincle A/R. one being a precision billet and one being my batmo race covered 75 ... the precision made about 15hp more at peak, and made 100hp more at 4000 rpms. haller has the graphs iirc.

Word.

I figured the graphs would have been posted sooner. Maybe this thread will draw them out from hiding.

 

[Dzchey21]

Word.

I figured the graphs would have been posted sooner. Maybe this thread will draw them out from hiding.

Really didn't need to confirm anything.

I just can't see why someone would buy a turbo with a billet wheel. Take it out and put in a batmowheel unless you want the name or something.

Elites low pressure is such a good deal why mess that up? That's just my thinking

 

[Jeff@Spartan]

I agree more than 100%.

 

[Tree Trimmer]

Really didn't need to confirm anything.

I just can't see why someone would buy a turbo with a billet wheel. Take it out and put in a batmowheel unless you want the name or something.

Elites low pressure is such a good deal why mess that up? That's just my thinking

so lets take that another direction.

what is the price difference between the batmo, and the precision billet wheel? just the wheel.

and how much does it cost to have stockers made to fit the billet wheel, vs just buying a premade billet wheel turbo.

i agree with you, why buy billet, just to put in a different billet wheel. buy cast, and put in billet.

i also think, that most of the people who have posted in this thread so far, have been performance for so long, and had the bank roll to do it, that sometimes they forget to think like the average joe. the guy without the background you guys have. the guy who has to weigh cost vs outcome/performance.

to this guy, a couple hundred bucks is huge. not so much to you guys. if he can save a couple hundred bucks, and have the down time of the truck, the batmo vs elites atmo is a very real option to him. he wont care about max hp, like it seems everyone else does. he' goin to want cooler egt's, maybe quicker spool up, and more boost is a by-product to make him feel good about his decision. make him think he has something, and made a good decision for HIM.

my opinion, is batmo needs to change their marketing strategy. there aiming the wheel/turbo at you guys. but to the guys that want the cream of the crop, they are goin to test it, see that another turbo performs better, at max rpm, and discard the batmo. pretty much like you guys have.

they need to market it at the average guy, who wants more, but in a cheaper version billet turbo. one who gives up some top end, thus giving up some cost. cuz lets face it, the average guy, is not goin to be on the track often enough to care, or rodding his truck up at peak rpm on the street where bigr seen all that lost power. he's goin to be hooked to a trailer, or doin normal guy stuff. not playing johnny racer. i feel the batmo fits that market rather nicely.

i would almost put money on, if they had done that, this thread would not exist. i think they underestimated the fact that, the high hp crowd, will pick everyting about a new product apart thats aimed at them, and it will either live or die, with no in between. because the high hp crowd, either has the testing equip, or the means to lay hands on it.

 

[Dzchey21]

so lets take that another direction.

what is the price difference between the batmo, and the precision billet wheel? just the wheel.

and how much does it cost to have stockers made to fit the billet wheel, vs just buying a premade billet wheel turbo.

i agree with you, why buy billet, just to put in a different billet wheel. buy cast, and put in billet.

i also think, that most of the people who have posted in this thread so far, have been performance for so long, and had the bank roll to do it, that sometimes they forget to think like the average joe. the guy without the background you guys have. the guy who has to weigh cost vs outcome/performance.

to this guy, a couple hundred bucks is huge. not so much to you guys. if he can save a couple hundred bucks, and have the down time of the truck, the batmo vs elites atmo is a very real option to him. he wont care about max hp, like it seems everyone else does. he' goin to want cooler egt's, maybe quicker spool up, and more boost is a by-product to make him feel good about his decision. make him think he has something, and made a good decision for HIM.

my opinion, is batmo needs to change their marketing strategy. there aiming the wheel/turbo at you guys. but to the guys that want the cream of the crop, they are goin to test it, see that another turbo performs better, at max rpm, and discard the batmo. pretty much like you guys have.

they need to market it at the average guy, who wants more, but in a cheaper version billet turbo. one who gives up some top end, thus giving up some cost. cuz lets face it, the average guy, is not goin to be on the track often enough to care, or rodding his truck up at peak rpm on the street where bigr seen all that lost power. he's goin to be hooked to a trailer, or doin normal guy stuff. not playing johnny racer. i feel the batmo fits that market rather nicely.

i would almost put money on, if they had done that, this thread would not exist. i think they underestimated the fact that, the high hp crowd, will pick everyting about a new product apart thats aimed at them, and it will either live or die, with no in between. because the high hp crowd, either has the testing equip, or the means to lay hands on it.

The elite atmospheric turbo option only comes in billet. Its a reman turbo with a billet wheel for I think 1200 bucks. Cheaper if elite is having a sale
That's why im saying its so hard to pass up. Housing is already machined Ect for the wheel. Install and go.

 

[faster6.0]

The batmo is a quick spool compressor. Where as it spools quicker, it lacks up top. Look up reverse curve compressor design. Turbonetics has done it to their wheels
For years. The batmo appears as a more Aggressive reverse curve design in which makes
It spool faster than an average billet or cast wheel, but lacks on the upper psi ranges compared to a non batmo billet without material removed on the blades and a reverse curve design. IMO the batmo is ideal for a high pressure turbo on a twin setup because it needs to spool fast, and won't be lacking on the top end with a low
Pressure coming in behind it.
Probably not going to win overall power vs a standard billet wheel single vs single, but would spool faster IMO.

 

[08BIGRIG]

I will be doing Tow powers by the end of summer with the rest of my build and really looking to see the difference here with graphs and numbers. I am not leaning one way or the other, just want the best of whats out there at the time. If it is percision billet wheels on both charger, percision hp wheel and batmo low pressure, or any combo of them, I just want to know what is the best and that is what will go on my truck.

I did the stock charger hp batmo drop-in for now and must say that I am happy with it thus far. Boost is up form 47-48 PSI to 51-52 PSI on highway from 60-90 mph, egt's are down 160*s, spool up better, and for the price it was a good investment for the time being. It is much better than the stock cast wheel that was on there forsure. As for billet to batmo this sounds like it is a different story. I will stay tuned for results.

 

[04stroker]

I'm assuming that elites setup is also a balanced assembly? I know the batmo is not and I don't think Any bullseye chargers are. So to do it the right way you also should add in if you do batmowheels the cost of having it balanced. Just my .02

 

[jdgleason]

I'm assuming that elites setup is also a balanced assembly? I know the batmo is not and I don't think Any bullseye chargers are. So to do it the right way you also should add in if you do batmowheels the cost of having it balanced. Just my .02

The whole assembly totally balanced, and the center sections are all rebuilt. Essentially it's a brand new turbo.

 

[04stroker]

The whole assembly totally balanced, and the center sections are all rebuilt. Essentially it's a brand new turbo.

That's what I thought. For all of that you just can't beat the price vs. Just a drop in unbalanced batmowheel.

 

[Super08Duty]

Batmowheels are overhyped wheels that dont flow as much as normal billet wheel from say precesion or garrett. Tadd from Elite has proven it.

Here Tadds precesion with billet wheel vs bullseye/batmo dyno chart.

IMO batmowheels are too expensive for a crappy wheel and almost nothing to show for what your paying for.

 

[powerlifter405]

Really didn't need to confirm anything.

I just can't see why someone would buy a turbo with a billet wheel. Take it out and put in a batmowheel unless you want the name or something.

Elites low pressure is such a good deal why mess that up? That's just my thinking

For myself, it isn't a matter of getting the 71 then batmo-ing it. It is a matter if is it worth the $$ for the 71 vs getting a batmo for my stock charger. As i'm reading the previous posts and threads I'm getting that others are viewing options of the 71mm OR the batmo, not necessarily a combo of both. The batmo just seems to be a low cost option for the ave joe who could careless about horsepower/bench racing and just needs to get the kids to school and maybe tow the camper on the weekend.

As doing both, w/ not knowing too much about either, but enough to know that the 71+batmo would be a waste.

How does the 71mm improve driveablity for the ave guy? I will likely never see a track and for just driving myself to my desk job everyday and the occassional road trip, I"m questioning why I'd want to spend 7500 for HP vs the 1300 for the 71mm or the 400 for the batmo. I want quality but why not have a REASONABLE option for those w/ limited funds or don't care about the big topend that highpowers may bring.

Not to derail but you mentioned the highpowers as an option for my setup, why the highpowers vs the 71? I"m trying to see why one would be better than another?

 

[powerlifter405]

That's what I thought. For all of that you just can't beat the price vs. Just a drop in unbalanced batmowheel.

So basically, you're getting a 71mm for $1300, fully balanced and "new".

That is a good point that the batmo still needs balancing. Do it right the 1st time...

 

[Dzchey21]

It was just a suggestion based on what you were looking for as far as faster spool up.

Honestly for most people tow powers will support thier hp goals for a long time. Solid clean 600 with stock fuel. 650 with 60 nozzles and just under 700 with 110s all super streetable and fun

 

[powerlifter405]

Batmowheels are overhyped wheels that dont flow as much as normal billet wheel from say precesion or garrett. Tadd from Elite has proven it.

Here Tadds precesion with billet wheel vs bullseye/batmo dyno chart.

IMO batmowheels are too expensive for a crappy wheel and almost nothing to show for what your paying for.

But Aaron also showed a gain w/ the batmo vs stock.
http://powerstrokenation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117972&highlight=71mm&page=3

It clearly showed a gain over the cast stock w/ the batmo wheel and the 71mm had the best #'s. I'd say the idea of the batmo trying to take the thunder from elite is overhyped. It's simply an option for the ave guy who doesn't want to run up his credit card.

Isn't that the basic idea for the batmo? Gains over stock? not to steal customers away from elite.
Anyone who thinks the batmo will get 71mm or High power type gains is a fool but I've read too many posts where guys were hoping to get some EGTS down and maybe better spool up on a budget and the batmo was an inexpensive way to accomplish that.