Doing it Gangsta

[PowerstrokeJunkie]

Big Bore- Your math seems to be flawed. Is there exactly one square inch that the boost pressure has to act on the valve ?

 

[G Racing]

The thickness of the retainer is only as good as the locking groove. If it's the same size as stock there are no benefits, it just adds weight to the valvetrain. If your springs are not matched to your cam kiss a cam lobe or the lifter goodbye. Not to mention the valve face and or seat. It will just find the weak link and take it out. Bigger is not always better.

 

[juniort444e]

So a 175lb would be a bad idea for a cam calling for 150lb's then. Or no.

Something else got me thinking too, if my current V springs are roughly 125lb of seat pressure WITH shims, wouldnt that limit the travel or efficiency of the valve spring. Meaning if you have to use a shim to compress it to a certain pressure why not get a spring that is a little more seat pressure with no shims so you still get the full movement of the spring. And wouldnt the springs settle or weaken over time anyway. Just curious as to why a 175 is SOOO much worse then something closer to a 150 for a cam calling for the 150lbs

 

[QtrHorse]

I also believe you are going to lose a lifter.

How many failures are seen in the heads?

 

[Mdub707]

You guys should probably go on facebook and read what Doug is doing with this build, he's also got other stuff going on you're not seeing. I know I saw some titanium 10 degree locks that are roughly double the size of stock. Or maybe Doug can chime in. This guy will forget more stuff than some people on here will ever know.

 

[TyCorr]

This is snowballing into some serious cash blowing.

That aint no sh!t!! This could all get spendy real quick.

 

[juniort444e]

Whats the page on facebook. I want to check it out.

Most people on here forget more then i know on this topic. Im am constantly trying to learn, but some like to point fingers and laugh at people like me, which doesnt help anything. I question alot of things because i dont fully understand, thats what questions are for. I Want to build a very competitive sled pulling useing the heui system. Thats my goals in the near future.

 

[Mdub707]

Whats the page on facebook. I want to check it out.

Most people on here forget more then i know on this topic. Im am constantly trying to learn, but some like to point fingers and laugh at people like me, which doesnt help anything. I question alot of things because i dont fully understand, thats what questions are for. I Want to build a very competitive sled pulling useing the heui system. Thats my goals in the near future.

Please don't take my post as a knock... it's just funny reading some of the posts saying how it wont work, or how it's a bad idea. I guess it's only funny once you know who Doug is. Check his page out, he's got some great stuff. I'm sure whatever he's making/building, he's crunched numbers and is doing it for a reason. He certainly is not the kind of guy to just slap something together.

Doug's page (he posts stuff here too) http://www.facebook.com/GoGoDiesel
His company page Direct Injection Performance http://www.facebook.com/PowerStrokePerformance

 

[Big Bore]

Big Bore- Your math seems to be flawed. Is there exactly one square inch that the boost pressure has to act on the valve ?

Why would that matter? Spring exerting pressure one way, boost exerting pressure the other way. It could be 1/10th of an inch of area. That would not change the units of measure. If it is in fact flawed, please correct me by showing the correct math.

 

[Big Bore]

I also believe you are going to lose a lifter.

How many failures are seen in the heads?

With that much excess spring pressure I'm inclined to agree. Remember, the stock hydraulic lifters are pumped up by engine oil pressure. What is stock oil pressure? The valve springs are in direct resistance to the lifters.

 

[Big Bore]

You guys should probably go on facebook and read what Doug is doing with this build, he's also got other stuff going on you're not seeing. I know I saw some titanium 10 degree locks that are roughly double the size of stock. Or maybe Doug can chime in. This guy will forget more stuff than some people on here will ever know.

When they demonstrate a lack of understanding of a standard unit of measure, I think it's safe to question what they are doing.

 

[09stroker]

PSI aka Per Square Inch. Meaning x amount of pounds of force on every square inch. Lets use 100psi just to be simple. If an area 1/2 a square inch has a pressure of 100psi applied to it, it is really putting out 50 pounds of force. A 2 square inch area will equal 200 pounds o force.

 

[moose99psd]

at over 2x stock seat pressure, what are you doing for valve seats and valves? id be afraid with a cam to destroy one.. or both for that matter...

 

[Tom S]

Why would that matter? Spring exerting pressure one way, boost exerting pressure the other way. It could be 1/10th of an inch of area. That would not change the units of measure. If it is in fact flawed, please correct me by showing the correct math.

Think about how your basic hydraulic bottle jack works and you will get the principle. One of our injectors might also be a way for you to think of this.

 

[Viking]

I guess I'm somewhat uneducated on the subject, but at what point do the Comp springs become obsolete?

According to those pics....they just did

 

[Big Bore]

Think about how your basic hydraulic bottle jack works and you will get the principle. One of our injectors might also be a way for you to think of this.

I'm not misunderstanding the principle at all. I'm fully aware that the point load is either magnified or reduced based on the area of the load.

In this instance, I would venture the area of pressure of the spring and that being affected by the boost is almost equal.

The spring exerts pressure in an area the diameter of the spring. Boost exerts pressure on the backside of the valve, however only part of that pressure is in direct opposition to the spring, since the valve curves and the directional forces of the boost will be reduced as the surface becomes closer to perpendicular to the valve face, and, the area of the diameter of the valve stem is not being acted upon by the boost at all. The area of pressure from boost is not the area of the valve face, it will be less than that. If I were to hazard a guess it would start exerting pressure in opposition to the spring somewhere around 45*, but that will be significantly reduced, so it's probably almost equal to the area of the spring pressure being exerted in opposition, possibly even less, which in turn makes the higher pressure spring even more overkill.

Heres the thing, there may in fact be a boost and performance level where this spring might be applicable. I doubt many on this site are at that level. And it would be at a cost of extremely increased wear on all valve train parts, and those parts would need to be a lot stronger, i.e. solid roller lifters and roller rockers. IOW not even remotely practical for a daily driver.

 

[Big Bore]

PSI aka Per Square Inch. Meaning x amount of pounds of force on every square inch. Lets use 100psi just to be simple. If an area 1/2 a square inch has a pressure of 100psi applied to it, it is really putting out 50 pounds of force. A 2 square inch area will equal 200 pounds o force.

BTW, this is wrong.

 

[09stroker]

Your right I forgot to put pounds in front of per, simple mistake. That was my bad. If that's not it please correct me

 

[Big Bore]

Your right I forgot to put pounds in front of per, simple mistake. That was my bad. If that's not it please correct me

No, your entire line of reasoning is incorrect.

If you have 80 lbs of weight on a one inch square, and 80 lbs on a 10 inch square, which has more lbs per square inch. 80 lbs does not become more if the area is larger, and it does not become less if it's smaller.

 

[09stroker]

PER.....