H-11 torque numbers on the 6.0L

Extended Power · Jan 31, 2012

I hate to bring this up, especially after the go-round in the 6.4L section, but I have a set...with the original install papers from Elite stating to only torque them to 175 ft-lbs.

I am going out to buy the "Peanut Butter" lube this morning...the Detroit universal lube compound #2.

Using stock FORD head gaskets this time...but I still feel like 175 is not enough for a final torque value when I hear other taking them to over 300 ft-lbs.

As most of you know, my engine does not have alot of stock parts, and will be running twins again this time around...just need some good advice to keep the heads on it this time.

If I even take them to 220 ft-lbs...thats really close to 26% more...

Mdub707 · Jan 31, 2012

Why do you think you need more torque on them? My guess is the thread pitch is different than the other's you're comparing them too. A different thread pitch could result in the same clamping force with less torque applied to the nut. Not really rocket science.

Studs are designed with a % of yield in mind, so I would definitely follow the manufacturers suggestions on torque.

FWIW, I work for a company that deals primarily in studs/nuts and hydraulic tensioners for large compressors, so I have some clue as to what I'm talking about :morons:

Pizza pig · Jan 31, 2012

higher the torque doesnt mean better... ARP changed from 248 to 210 with their new lube... if the H11's say 175 i would see it as being believable.

JDub · Jan 31, 2012

We take the H11's to 165-ft lbs in the 6.0L engine, have yet to have an issue with a truck we've done in-house.

Extended Power · Jan 31, 2012

I understand that in most cases...trucks with stock turbo and injectors, the 175 should/would be enough.
So are we going to blame the blown head gaskets on the head gaskets alone?
The block was decked, and so were the heads, and I followed the instruction to the tee.
I used the correct supplied lube, and a certified torque wrench.

Like I mentioned before, I am running twins with a lot more boost and back pressure then the average set up. (Single turbo)

jdgleason · Jan 31, 2012

Torque the studs shown as 1 through 10 to 90
ft-lb going in diagram’s sequence (1, 2, 3…). After all have been torqued, loosen
them, repeat the torque sequence to 90 ft-lb, loosen them, then torque in sequence
to 130 ft-lb. Once all have been torqued to 130 ft-lb, tighten them in sequence to
175 ft-lb.

Extended Power · Jan 31, 2012

jdgleason said:
Torque the studs shown as 1 through 10 to 90
ft-lb going in diagram’s sequence (1, 2, 3…). After all have been torqued, loosen
them, repeat the torque sequence to 90 ft-lb, loosen them, then torque in sequence
to 130 ft-lb. Once all have been torqued to 130 ft-lb, tighten them in sequence to
175 ft-lb.

That is what the paper says that I got...

The setup, (H-11's torqued to 175 ft-lbs and Victor Reinz head gaskets)did not hold after the installation of twin turbo's...are you saying that it will hold 80+ psi boost, and 100+ psi back pressure using H-11's torqued to 175 ft-lbs and stock Ford gaskets?

The set up held for over a year and a half with stock injectors and a 64mm turbo, and then with 190cc injectors and a 64mm turbo, but did not hold up to the twins...

jdgleason · Jan 31, 2012

Weve seen a lot of failures with the black onyx gaskets, but if it were me, I would probably try 185 ft lbs.

Extended Power · Jan 31, 2012

jdgleason said:
Weve seen a lot of failures with the black onyx gaskets, but if it were me, I would probably try 185 ft lbs.

Yeah...I will NEVER use the Victor Reinz head gaskets ever again.

I ordered the lube this morning from the local Detroit shop in town. I do have the new ARP Ultra Torque lube, but I will use the lube that is recommended by you guys. (Elite)

I will take them up to 185 ft-lbs.

Do they still need to be cycled 3 times? (This is the second time of using them.)

Thanks!

jdgleason · Jan 31, 2012

Yes follow the original procedure, but up the final spec a touch.

faster6.0 · Jan 31, 2012

penut butter ftw

Extended Power · Jan 31, 2012

Dozers Diesel said:
penut butter ftw

That is what the Detroit International lube #2 is called....

(I found that out from the other thread in the 6.4 section)

smokinstroker · Jan 31, 2012

ivan go with the compound #2

i used the ARP ultra and i think im puking.

Extended Power · Jan 31, 2012

smokinstroker said:
ivan go with the compound #2

i used the ARP ultra and i think im puking.

Yip. Ordered a can of it this morning.

Just waiting for my heads to come back....

imp:

Powerstroked162 · Jan 31, 2012

The studs aren't the reason you lifted a head, Ivan..... You'll be fine

Extended Power · Jan 31, 2012

Powerstroked162 said:
The studs aren't the reason you lifted a head, Ivan..... You'll be fine

Well I know that using the VR gaskets had a part in the play...
The other was the size of the wastegate ports in the turbine housing of the secondary...too small.

So hopefully, this time, it should hold up alot better.

....also getting rid of the "Quick Spool Valve" on the primary. (It's a good idea for a single charger..but not in a twin set up.)

I guess if I would have had more time to set everything up properly, it would have worked better...but....what-ever..what done is done.

Just trying to get rid of all the "Bit you in the ass" stuff...

I can add the QSV again later, but I realy don't think I will need it this time.

redracer62 · Jan 31, 2012

the first time h-11's studs went in(dealer installed) they were tq to 175 per instuctions and lasted about a year no problems. put bigger injectors an turbo in and blew them in a couple weeks. the second time the same h-11's went in, I tq them to 250 ft lbs. lasted a week and bent rods but gaskets were fine. third time they went back in at 250 again, and they have been fine ever since. been like 3 yrs now. this was all with oem gaskets.

i might get a lot of bad comments out of this for the tq being too high, but thats where there at no problems.

06deezel · Jan 31, 2012

Extended Power said:
That is what the Detroit International lube #2 is called....

(I found that out from the other thread in the 6.4 section)

Thats some good stuff!!!

Mdub707 · Feb 1, 2012

Over-torquing sounds dangerous to me. The stud has a very high tensile strength, but the block is softer. Typically the stud would be damaged if torqued past yield. However in this case, I bet the block sees more damage than anything. Wasn't there talk from ARP engineers about possibly wearing out internal components due to distortion of the block from over-torquing as well?

To me, as long as your surfaces are good, and you're using GOOD gaskets, the torque they recommend should be fine. I would stick with the 175 ft-lbs as recommended if it was me.