H-11 torque numbers on the 6.0L

Pizza pig · Feb 1, 2012

sweet, what do you think using that on ARP's over the new lube?

Extended Power · Feb 1, 2012

I'm not sure about that.
I'm using it on my H-11's because that is what Elite and A-1 Industries recommend.
I also have the new ARP Ultra Torque lube, but not using it on the studs.

Goose · Feb 1, 2012

WTF? I thought you were doing a conversion.

and the studs weren't the reason you blew the headgaskets.

Redneck6.0L · Feb 1, 2012

When you blow your head gaskets again we'll still be here saying ARP. Event after event arp holds 1000hp. 175 ft/lbs pulling that head to the deck vs 245t/lbs. Seems like the math would tell all. f

Extended Power · Feb 2, 2012

Goose said:
WTF? I thought you were doing a conversion.

and the studs weren't the reason you blew the headgaskets.

Meh.

I jumped the gun there a bit...for what i wanted to run as a combination, at the power level I wanted....I needed to win the lottery...and since that didn't happen, I decided to rebuild the 6.0L one last time.
If it doesn't hold...it will be hauled in on a flatbed to the closest Chevy, Ford, or Dodge dealership, and traded off on something new. (Cuz the payments would be less then what I spend every month on it now.)

Craig@MFI · Feb 2, 2012

Redneck6.0L said:
When you blow your head gaskets again we'll still be here saying ARP. Event after event arp holds 1000hp. 175 ft/lbs pulling that head to the deck vs 245t/lbs. Seems like the math would tell all. f

X2 Been there done that and tossed them out...arp is the way to go

Mdub707 · Feb 2, 2012

Redneck6.0L said:
When you blow your head gaskets again we'll still be here saying ARP. Event after event arp holds 1000hp. 175 ft/lbs pulling that head to the deck vs 245t/lbs. Seems like the math would tell all. f

Speaking in general terms (since I've never had an H-11 stud in my hand...) the torque value placed on the nut is only ONE part of the equation of clamping force. A different thread pitch could easily change this. It's quite possible 175 ft-lbs on the H-11's would actually show a higher clamping force than 245 ft-lbs on the ARP's. Are you guys still going to 245 with the ultra-torque lube on the ARP's?

Seems like someone with an H-11 could figure out the thread pitch and let us know, hint hint!!! :thumbup:

I don't follow the logic behind thinking a higher torque value is going to work any better (either ARP's OR H-11's). A stud is designed with a certain amount of stretch in mind. Now maybe this wont work for every application, but it seems like I would be asking the manufacturer about their recommendations. If a stud is designed with 75% of yield in mind, and you're going more... you're running dangerously close to yielding the stud. Anyone ever looked through ARP's brochure and see the pictures of stud failure and the analysis on it? Pretty interesting stuff.

I just keep getting this picture in my head of a caveman going "more is better" which isn't always the case here...

As for lube, use whatever the manufacturer recommends. ARP recommends the new ultra-torque, so use that for them. If the H-11's say peanut butter, then use that. I'm sure they've done testing and come up with torque values based on the lube used. There is more than likely a reason they recommend such lube. I talked to an engineer @ ARP about all of this some time ago and it was a very enlightening conversation.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

Extended Power · Feb 2, 2012

Well, since there are so many guys on here that have, or sell the ARP's, they should be able to tell us what the thread pitch is on the studs.

I'm back at work, so I won't be able to get them for the H-11's for awhile.

Mdub707 · Feb 3, 2012

It will be interesting to see...

Actually now that you mention it, I can get the ARP one, I have a set of studs sitting on my kitchen table. ARP may even have this info listed as well.

Extended Power · Feb 22, 2012

Mdub707 said:
It will be interesting to see...

Actually now that you mention it, I can get the ARP one, I have a set of studs sitting on my kitchen table. ARP may even have this info listed as well.

What did you find the ARP thread pitch to be?

I just measured the H-11's...I'm not posting their thread pitch until you post the ARP thread pitch.

oke:

Mdub707 · Feb 22, 2012

Deal, I completely forgot about it, I'll bring one in to work tomorrow and measure it up. Just judging by the large difference in recommended torque values, I'd almost venture to guess you could SEE the difference, but I will certainly get a number for you.

Extended Power · Feb 22, 2012

Mdub707 said:
Deal, I completely forgot about it, I'll bring one in to work tomorrow and measure it up. Just judging by the large difference in recommended torque values, I'd almost venture to guess you could SEE the difference, but I will certainly get a number for you.

Right on.

Thanks!

Craig@MFI · Feb 22, 2012

i know h-11s on 6.4 are same pitch as arp

Extended Power · Feb 22, 2012

and what is that?

chappy · Feb 23, 2012

Mdub707 said:
Are you guys still going to 245 with the ultra-torque lube on the ARP's?

I was puking and already studded. I went and did a retorque to 250lb's with the arp lube. Stopped puking for now.

Mdub707 · Feb 23, 2012

Extended Power said:
Right on.

Thanks!

Ended up staying out late, stumbling into the house and woke up in a fog this morning, completely forgot to grab one of the studs man. Someone here has to be able to measure one, there are tons of ARP users! Anyone got some studs laying around they can get the thread pitch off of???

Craig@MPD said:
i know h-11s on 6.4 are same pitch as arp

Are the torque values the same for that application? They're the same pitch on both ends of the stud? Obviously where each threads into the block they'd be the same, just want to make sure they're the same where the head is clamped. What are the recommended torque values for each? Kind of apples to oranges there though...

chappy said:
I was puking and already studded. I went and did a retorque to 250lb's with the arp lube. Stopped puking for now.

Sounds like you're still on borrowed time bud. I mean if it's already puked once, the gasket has been compromised... :shrug:

Extended Power · Feb 23, 2012

Craig@MPD said:
i know h-11s on 6.4 are same pitch as arp

Wasn't there a big todo over companies selling studs as H-11's when in fact they were not?
As in...you can not buy a set of H-11's for a 6.4L because they don't make them.:shrug:

Pizza pig · Feb 23, 2012

Yeah there was a whole debate on here about that, the 6.0 studs are actually H-11's the 6.4's apparently are made of the same material arp's are made from... it was a whole miscommunication thing, and it seems arp's on the 6.4's are having better luck. Afterall craig is throwing down over 1000 on the juice with ford gaskets arps and a stock motor

Mdub707 · Feb 23, 2012

Anyone else have an ARP around they can measure? I wont be back to my house until late Sunday night so it's going to be a few days. Still can't believe I forgot to grab one this morning.

broncof250444 · Feb 23, 2012

jdgleason said:
Torque the studs shown as 1 through 10 to 90
ft-lb going in diagram’s sequence (1, 2, 3…). After all have been torqued, loosen
them, repeat the torque sequence to 90 ft-lb, loosen them, then torque in sequence
to 130 ft-lb. Once all have been torqued to 130 ft-lb, tighten them in sequence to
175 ft-lb.

:stupid: