HELP! Died while driving, crank no start

[dsberman94]

I'll go check right now. Just cleaned up the shop. You're saying attempt to start the engine for 5-10 seconds straight and monitor the gauge?

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Correct. That gauge is for low pressure oil. Being that low on oil I'm wondering if it got below the pickup tube in the pan and wasn't supplying the hpop. But now that there's air in there it needs to reprime and work the air out. Sometimes that takes quite a bit of crank time. But right now I'm just wondering if it's reading LPO on the dash gauge.

 

[cpadolf3]

Correct. That gauge is for low pressure oil. Being that low on oil I'm wondering if it got below the pickup tube in the pan and wasn't supplying the hpop. But now that there's air in there it needs to reprime and work the air out. Sometimes that takes quite a bit of crank time. But right now I'm just wondering if it's reading LPO on the dash gauge.

I thought about the same thing. Especially being the way it sputtered before it died. Just tried the starting it and took a video, but it wouldn't upload. The gauge is stationary on the bottom peg. No bouncing, no fixed position in the normal area for running oil pressure. Low oil pressure light stayed on as well, which is normal whether it's running properly or not until it's actually idling

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[dsberman94]

For videos you have to upload to a hosting service then copy the link. I use YouTube then copy and paste to here.

If you still have a valvecover off, is there oil coming from the deflector spouts on the injectors while cranking? You'll need a flashlight and probably a buddy to turn the key for you. They look like this:

 

[cpadolf3]

I had someone turn the key while I watched, and saw nothing other than the rocker arms moving. But I wasn't looking for any specific oil from any specific location. Will have to check tomorrow

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[dsberman94]

Yea, didn't think you'd get to that tonight being it's 11pm. Haha. Kinda sounds like you've got an oil issue though. Double check the hpo reservoir tomorrow as well. The sensor for the dash gauge is directly on top of the reservoir. Post back with what you find tomorrow and hopefully we can get you running again.

Kinda weird your dash gauge doesn't do anything when cranking. I'm not sure if it's year dependent or not but I can watch the lpo gauge on my dash come up when cranking. Mine is an 02.

 

[cpadolf3]

Yea, didn't think you'd get to that tonight being it's 11pm. Haha. Kinda sounds like you've got an oil issue though. Double check the hpo reservoir tomorrow as well. The sensor for the dash gauge is directly on top of the reservoir. Post back with what you find tomorrow and hopefully we can get you running again.

Kinda weird your dash gauge doesn't do anything when cranking. I'm not sure if it's year dependent or not but I can watch the lpo gauge on my dash come up when cranking. Mine is an 02.

I already topped off the hpop reservoir. It was pretty low. Checked it again before I left the shop and oil level was still where it was when I filled it. Hadn't even thought of this, but is it possible that my TS chip fried the PCM where it plugs in? I pulled it out the other night without disconnecting the batteries. I would think it wouldn't have run at all though if that had messed something up. I'm definitely burning the candle at both ends lol, I just get agitated when my vehicle is down. I appreciate all the help

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[dsberman94]

Disconnecting batteries doesn't really matter. I don't and have never had an issue leaving them connected. Issue comes when you pull it out or put the chip in with the keys in the ignition. I'm honestly not sure what happens when the pcm fries either.

It may be just seconds away from getting oil to the injectors and firing. Never know.

 

[lincolnlocker]

Warmer than you'd think it would be. I only had to be at 130ish for mine to die. Easily capable of being there in 15 minutes of run time. If your temp gauge reaches a normal operating temp, you're already at or over 141*.

Honestly I doubt it's your idm or even injector solenoid related. The idm usually has some symptoms related before it just stops working, same with injector solenoids. They don't just all die at once and cause a no start, also very rare to have one go bad.

Your harbor freight scanner won't do much unfortunately. You need something that will give realtime data with the ability to look at different parameters at once. The first and least expensive option that comes to mind currently is going to be the forscan smartphone app or download it on a computer. Or there is a couple of others that are free that you can download on your phone And you will need a Bluetooth OBDII adapter for a phone. The adapters cost about $5 on amazon depending on which one you get. If using a laptop you'll need a USB to OBDII cable for the forscan app. I'd do one of the free phone apps and a Bluetooth adaptor if you have an android or iPhone.

The IPR is quite far down into the valley of the engine, it comes out of the back of the hpop toward the driver side of the hpop. Easiest way to know exactly which it is, is to google for a picture of it. You should be able to see the wires going into the solenoid, then behind that would be a spacer and a tin nut holding the solenoid and spacer on. If the tin nut or any other 1/2"x20 nut is not on there, that is a problem.

Also, I do not remember if it has been mention but is there oil in your icp sensor connector? If there is this is also bad and you need a new one. Try starting it with the icp sensor wires unplugged and see if it starts. If it does fire, your issue is the icp sensor. (Reread and noticed this was mentioned and tried. But you still need a new one since it's full of oil. Memory says it's around $100-$120 maybe.)

Once you get a device to read data in real time, what we need to know is what your icp sensor is reading, as well as ipr duty cycle, both while cranking. Once we know this we know if it's hpo related or not which narrows down or rules out a decent chunk of things to check. It's very hard to diagnose an issue on these trucks in person without some sort of a device to monitor what the truck is seeing, no less trying to do it over the internet. That prevents you from just throwing money at it.

Fuse diagram would be in your owners manual as well as a list of what each fuse does. There's also copies of the owners manual online if you google "xxxx Ford F-250 owners manual"( insert model year where the xxxx is.) I was able to find one year specific to my truck and download it to my phone as a PDF file.

I had to go back to the top a couple times to see who actually sent this post! nice fuggin post berman!!

Any hydraulic shop. You'll need a length of hose with the fitting for the gauge on one end and I believe a 1/4" JIC fitting on the other.

its oring sealed whatever it is..

Well therein lies the other problem. All our hydraulic shops are open mon-fri so I'm out of luck. I'll look at my office tomorrow for one. I do construction, but always have materials laying around. Just pulled the valve cover to see if I could feel injectors clicking while starting. There's a quarter in the UVCH so I guess someone has in fact been in here before me. Interesting.

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that mod has been around snice the late 90s.. lol

For videos you have to upload to a hosting service then copy the link. I use YouTube then copy and paste to here.

If you still have a valvecover off, is there oil coming from the deflector spouts on the injectors while cranking? You'll need a flashlight and probably a buddy to turn the key for you. They look like this:

on a role tonight man!! very good posts!!

live life full throttle

god bless america and the farmer who feeds your fat ass

 

[cpadolf3]

Disconnecting batteries doesn't really matter. I don't and have never had an issue leaving them connected. Issue comes when you pull it out or put the chip in with the keys in the ignition. I'm honestly not sure what happens when the pcm fries either.

It may be just seconds away from getting oil to the injectors and firing. Never know.

I definitely had the key out of the ignition. The truck has a weird electrical quirk where even once you remove the key and open the door, there's still power to the windows until you manually depress the lock on the door or open the passenger side. I doubt this has anything to do with that though

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[lincolnlocker]

what year is the truck?

live life full throttle

god bless america and the farmer who feeds your fat ass

 

[cpadolf3]

what year is the truck?

live life full throttle

god bless america and the farmer who feeds your fat ass

2001 F250 XLT ECLB 7.3. Straight pipe, chip, intake, etc. All the basics

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[dsberman94]

I definitely had the key out of the ignition. The truck has a weird electrical quirk where even once you remove the key and open the door, there's still power to the windows until you manually depress the lock on the door or open the passenger side. I doubt this has anything to do with that though

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Relating to this, does your interior/dome light come on when you open your drivers door?

 

[cpadolf3]

Relating to this, does your interior/dome light come on when you open your drivers door?

No it doesn't not. Unless of course I push the lock down manually. It works with the passenger side door

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[cpadolf3]

No it doesn't not. Unless of course I push the lock down manually. It works with the passenger side door

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Just to add, I also have issues with the WTS light while the chip is installed. But I believe that's due to either a faulty chip or the previous owner filed the PCM connection down too low for a good connection. When I pull the chip out the truck runs fine with no issue with WTS. Also, the red fault light on my Curt trailer brake controller comes on when I turn on my windshield wipers. A bunch of weird little electrical issues but of course nothing substantial enough to justify spending more than a few minutes looking at it

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[dsberman94]

No it doesn't not. Unless of course I push the lock down manually. It works with the passenger side door

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Sounds like your door sensor is stuck or is bad and needs replaced. Unfortunately that's easier said than done because the sensors are inside the door on the superdutys.

 

[cpadolf3]

No it does not. Unless of course I push the lock down manually. It works with the passenger side door

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[cpadolf3]

Sounds like your door sensor is stuck or is bad and needs replaced. Unfortunately that's easier said than done because the sensors are inside the door on the superdutys.

I agree, and yes, it does sound like a pain. The door lock actuators need the resistor mod so I'll probably address the sensor when I take care of that. As long as the truck is operable and safe, the little things don't usually bother me

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[dsberman94]

Just for poops and grins, check the oil level and top off of needed, then hold the key to start for 15 seconds tomorrow. If it doesn't fire during that 15 second hold, wait a minute and try it for another 15 seconds. If there is still no sign of fire after that, then check to make sure the reservoir is still full and then for oil from the deflectors while someone else holds it. I really do think it's close to firing since the hpop reservoir was full once you checked it again. I've done a few sets of injectors and each truck has been different on how much it takes to fire. Mine has taken anywhere from 10-30 seconds for just an injector swap. Others take much more, especially if the hpop was changed at the same time. Depends on how empty the oil system was. If yours sucked air from the pan then it's completely empty. If it won't first after that 30 seconds of cranking tomorrow, if there is oil coming from the deflector spouts, and you can't get an oil pressure gauge set up, we will have to wait until you get your Bluetooth tool to go further. I don't want to keep wasting your time with guesses.

 

[cpadolf3]

Just for poops and grins, check the oil level and top off of needed, then hold the key to start for 15 seconds tomorrow. If it doesn't fire during that 15 second hold, wait a minute and try it for another 15 seconds. If there is still no sign of fire after that, then check to make sure the reservoir is still full and then for oil from the deflectors while someone else holds it. I really do think it's close to firing since the hpop reservoir was full once you checked it again. I've done a few sets of injectors and each truck has been different on how much it takes to fire. Mine has taken anywhere from 10-30 seconds for just an injector swap. Others take much more, especially if the hpop was changed at the same time. Depends on how empty the oil system was. If yours sucked air from the pan then it's completely empty. If it won't first after that 30 seconds of cranking tomorrow, if there is oil coming from the deflector spouts, and you can't get an oil pressure gauge set up, we will have to wait until you get your Bluetooth tool to go further. I don't want to keep wasting your time with guesses.

I know it's doubtful that it's the IDM, and I do highly doubt that it's a solenoid for the injectors. But if the IDM is bad, wouldn't it prevent oil from even reaching the injectors? I'm not a skilled diesel mechanic, so I'm not super experienced with how the electronics tie into the firing of the injectors. But I would think that the oil would never reach them. I'll absolutely follow up on that tomorrow though. Can't hurt to check. Batteries are new and the starter has a 3 year warranty too haha

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[dsberman94]

I know it's doubtful that it's the IDM, and I do highly doubt that it's a solenoid for the injectors. But if the IDM is bad, wouldn't it prevent oil from even reaching the injectors? I'm not a skilled diesel mechanic, so I'm not super experienced with how the electronics tie into the firing of the injectors. But I would think that the oil would never reach them. I'll absolutely follow up on that tomorrow though. Can't hurt to check. Batteries are new and the starter has a 3 year warranty too haha

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If the idm is bad the injectors won't fire. If the injectors don't fire there will be no oil from the deflector. That's where something to read oil pressure at the oil rails at the head will come in at. But the icp sensor in the hpo rail needs to see 500 psi to tell the idm to activate the solenoid so the injector will fire. There should always be oil at the injector, it's whether the injector uses it or not. When the icp sensor sees 500 psi, the idm will start to fire the injector solenoids and will use the high pressure oil that is already at the injectors.

However, in your case you unplugged the icp sensor, when you do this the pcm automatically defaults to 700 psi which is more than it needs to see to tell the idm to fire, so it will. As long as there is oil there, the injector solenoid will activate and use the oil pressure to inject fuel. In your case I do not think there is oil there yet for the injector to use.

And I may have given some incomplete info before. For your gauge to read hpo at the heads. You'll need a #5 male o-ring boss to 1/4" jic male fitting. I bought two of these as well as two caps to go on the jic fitting. This way you can just leave those fittings in the hpo rails with the cap on in case you need them in the future. The hose will need the 1/4" jic female on one end and whatever fitting the gauge needs on the other. 5' of hose should be plenty as long as you have a buddy.