injector capability, tuning stand point

Charles · Jan 30, 2013

I would want to see a single webpage with links directly on it to the programs themselves. Have it categorized by DPC code, then by nozzle size, and by author if you wanted.

If it's through individual accounts you can't see the "big picture" and would have to keep going into and out of individual accounts, all organized differently on your search for multiple programs of the same type from various authors.

As for safety, if the files are all for 200+% nozzles then "the tennager" scenario is failsafe, in that anyone running a smaller nozzle will just get less effective timing and fuel. A crisp, clean and strong program for say a 200% nozzle would be lax, and docile on say a 30% nozzle.

I opened up my laptop and opened up my tuning software for the first time in about 2 years last night. Right now my truck is running 400/400's with a single 15* takeout pump from a wrecked OBS and at WOT last night I was running ~2550 psi ICP, smoking very little, running a wastegated 60psi boost and moving on out.

If nothing else that file would make a good starting point for anyone simply wanting to get a set of 400% nozzles under control for daily duty. The only time I had smoke when driving around was when I was TCC locked in OD at ~1500rpm and wanted to accelerate uphill. I could see some smoke kind of wisping out the pipe.

Even though that program probably has lebbentybillion things that various people would say are mistakes, and plenty that I would agree with, lol, that file would get 99.99% of people into a 400% nozzle with a stable "ground zero" point that would fire up and go down the road without a bunch of bullsh*t.

And plenty of other guys have stuff that would do the same for 400's, 300's, 200's and so on that I just wish we could skip the part where people are still running small nozzles because of "smoke control" and people with horribly skewed ideas of how a 200EDM for instance SHOULD behave. A 200 EDM should NEEEEEEEEEEEEVER smoke that you don't specifically ask it to. If you don't want to see the stuff, you shouldn't be seeing it, FLAT to the floor...

Any number of guys could write you a file for a 200 EDM where the pw just always stayed juuuuuuuuust ahead of the ICP and it would be a smoky pile of fail, Allllllllways under the charger, alllllllways running hot, smoky and soggy. This is soooooo easy to do. Even when you're trying not to, lol. A lot of people have driven trucks like this and said F it. Those same tuners could get the pw to icp ratio back in check by usually just easing back on the pw ever so slightly and all of a sudden the same truck will snap to attention, crispen right up and start shooting around like a sportscar with very little smoke and hauling ass. Pull back a little more and you can lay it to the floorboard with no smoke and still be outrunning the guy over there with 30% nozzles that's SMOKING, lol.

I'm just rambling now. But that's how I feel about it after running almost every nozzle made.

85_305 · Jan 30, 2013

^Very interesting points made in there...

2000wa250 · Jan 30, 2013

I agree Charles. I was one of those guys with 200s and a slow Smokey turd that never seemed right. Instead of giving up I said **** it and bought minotaur. Not saying it doesn't smoke now, but I am saying that unless I'm under the turbo, or in od (5th in my case) I have to try to see more than a puff, and I'm no where near done.

So where do we go from here?

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TyCorr · Jan 30, 2013

Chuck, you think the fact you run your trans with a pcs would have any effect on somebody who has an auto without it. I realize you're running a manual pcm but I was more referring to the engine tuning portion. The pcs has nothing to do with the pcm if Im as studied as I think I am.

Gearhead · Jan 31, 2013

I want to interject something about the 200% nozzles from my experience. Heavier trucks with bigger tires won't notice this issue because they are always at enough engine load to mask the problem. Low demand fueling is the hardest part to get right so picture this...... For a visual representation, think of the engine needing a teaspoon of fuel at light loads and highway cruise. Since the injectors have 200% more flow than stock nozzles the minimum they can reliably deliver is a tablespoon. This causes the truck to not fire on all cylinders under light load and have a notchy pedal and what feels like a slight miss or roughness. There is a way to fix this - drop the ICP a bit- but guess what, now you've lost atomization and you have a constant light haze rolling down the road. I will admit that 200% do run cooler under heavy demand because they do indeed deliver fuel faster, but if that's not where your truck spends most of its time I would advocate a smaller nozzle. The 100% nozzle needs to go away because it is simply an 80% nozzle with more extrude hone work. We need an in-between nozzle that starts with a hole size right in between the 80% and 200% nozzles and gets a light polish with extrude hone just like the 80% and 200% instead of what we currently have and call 100%

neverkickn · Jan 31, 2013

Is there not a 100%edm nozzle?

85_305 · Jan 31, 2013

Gearhead said:
I want to interject something about the 200% nozzles from my experience. Heavier trucks with bigger tires won't notice this issue because they are always at enough engine load to mask the problem. Low demand fueling is the hardest part to get right so picture this...... For a visual representation, think of the engine needing a teaspoon of fuel at light loads and highway cruise. Since the injectors have 200% more flow than stock nozzles the minimum they can reliably deliver is a tablespoon. This causes the truck to not fire on all cylinders under light load and have a notchy pedal and what feels like a slight miss or roughness. There is a way to fix this - drop the ICP a bit- but guess what, now you've lost atomization and you have a constant light haze rolling down the road. I will admit that 200% do run cooler under heavy demand because they do indeed deliver fuel faster, but if that's not where your truck spends most of its time I would advocate a smaller nozzle. The 100% nozzle needs to go away because it is simply an 80% nozzle with more extrude hone work. We need an in-between nozzle that starts with a hole size right in between the 80% and 200% nozzles and gets a light polish with extrude hone just like the 80% and 200% instead of what we currently have and call 100%

Interesting concept of heavier trucks/big tires...

So you are saying a 100% nozzle is no good; what do you recommend? 30s? 80s?

Charles · Jan 31, 2013

Gearhead said:
I want to interject something about the 200% nozzles from my experience. Heavier trucks with bigger tires won't notice this issue because they are always at enough engine load to mask the problem. Low demand fueling is the hardest part to get right so picture this...... For a visual representation, think of the engine needing a teaspoon of fuel at light loads and highway cruise. Since the injectors have 200% more flow than stock nozzles the minimum they can reliably deliver is a tablespoon. This causes the truck to not fire on all cylinders under light load and have a notchy pedal and what feels like a slight miss or roughness. There is a way to fix this - drop the ICP a bit- but guess what, now you've lost atomization and you have a constant light haze rolling down the road. I will admit that 200% do run cooler under heavy demand because they do indeed deliver fuel faster, but if that's not where your truck spends most of its time I would advocate a smaller nozzle. The 100% nozzle needs to go away because it is simply an 80% nozzle with more extrude hone work. We need an in-between nozzle that starts with a hole size right in between the 80% and 200% nozzles and gets a light polish with extrude hone just like the 80% and 200% instead of what we currently have and call 100%

In my experience in the scenario you describe you should be around 1000psi and the pw will be hovering around 1ms, nowhere NEAR the dropout point for a poppet valve on time. The truck will be crisp and clean, nowhere near hazing.

The fact that we run down the road with 400% nozzles in the same scenario without hazing means the 200% isn't even close.

If my truck started hazing in that condition I would be looking at my timing, either up or down to control it.

A lot of times when a truck is snappy and touchy the very bottom of the pw table at the lowest MFD point is to blame and if you removed more ICP to calm that down you'd be dropping the ICP well below what was needed. About 1000 is a good cruising ICP no load, flat ground with my little reg cab truck, say 45mph.

Gearhead · Jan 31, 2013

Charles said:
In my experience in the scenario you describe you should be around 1000psi and the pw will be hovering around 1ms, nowhere NEAR the dropout point for a poppet valve on time. The truck will be crisp and clean, nowhere near hazing.

The fact that we run down the road with 400% nozzles in the same scenario without hazing means the 200% isn't even close.

If my truck started hazing in that condition I would be looking at my timing, either up or down to control it.

A lot of times when a truck is snappy and touchy the very bottom of the pw table at the lowest MFD point is to blame and if you removed more ICP to calm that down you'd be dropping the ICP well below what was needed. About 1000 is a good cruising ICP no load, flat ground with my little reg cab truck, say 45mph.

Compounds will help with the hazing and there is a little more adjustment available, as well as a truck that is always under a decent load (tires and weight for example), but typically the bigger single chargers aren't making a whole lot of boost in the light cruise range on a lighter truck and this is also where I experience this the most. It makes the throttle a little notchy at the very bottom of the pedal where it almost feels like the truck is either running on all 8 cylinders or 4 cylinders depending on load.